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Thread: The U.S. Economy Can't Hire Health-Care Workers Fast Enough

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    Re: The U.S. Economy Can't Hire Health-Care Workers Fast Enough

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    What you say is not totally untrue. Where the narrative breaks down is in not looking at the effect paying nothing or much below market pricing has on the consumers' decisions. They consume more.

    Think of it this way. The doctor says you should have treatment worth $ 150.000 but can get something less pleasant, a little more painful and with less saticefactory results for $ 15.ooo. Some people will go for the less expensive, if they are not insured.
    People are not paying nothing. They are paying indirectly. This is a huge difference from what you claim. You seem to be totally unaware of how insurance or the health care profession work.
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    Re: The U.S. Economy Can't Hire Health-Care Workers Fast Enough

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    No, that's not how the law of supply and demand works. They are looking for people because they need people. They aren't hiring what they need because of an inadequate supply of skilled candidates.
    It is how reality works though. Just because someone is hiring does not mean that it is a new position that is not currently filled. I previously worked for a company that would usually give people it was terminating an opportunity to find another job while they looked for their replacement.

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    Re: The U.S. Economy Can't Hire Health-Care Workers Fast Enough

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    People are not paying nothing. They are paying indirectly.
    This is a vital point.

    Maybe a simplified illustration will help. Let's assume Market A has 5,000 people. Annual health-related costs come to $10 million per year (25% is spread equally among the population and 75% falls upon 1% of the population).

    If there's no insurance, 1% of the population would wind up paying an average of $150,000 in addition to the $500 costs spread equally among the people. $150,000 would be a catastrophic expense for most people.

    Hence, an insurance company is organized. The company charges each person $200 per month for comprehensive coverage or $150 for strictly catastrophic coverage. This is somewhat above the per capita health costs of $167 (and $125 for the catastrophic portion), as a company would incur administrative costs, seek a cushion for fluctuations in health costs, and earn profits.

    In the end, the population would be insured against, at a minimum, catastrophic health costs. In no way would this mean that people are "paying nothing." Instead, they would be spreading the costs among one another in exchange for eliminating the risk of facing a catastrophic out-of-pocket expenditure.

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    Re: The U.S. Economy Can't Hire Health-Care Workers Fast Enough

    Quote Originally Posted by logansrun View Post
    It is how reality works though.
    Not in my experience.

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    Re: The U.S. Economy Can't Hire Health-Care Workers Fast Enough

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Why would you not expect an industry to expand that produces a good that suddenly is free for all? I don't know, how it will develop, but I would expect an increase in healthcare consumption and higher costs.
    Now we all have free healthcare. That's news to me and my paycheck deductions.
    Ive been around for a long time and it just seems that the economy does better under the Democrats than the Republicans. -- Donald Trump

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    Re: The U.S. Economy Can't Hire Health-Care Workers Fast Enough

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Now we all have free healthcare. That's news to me and my paycheck deductions.
    I did not say health care did not cost anything, but for the consumer the act of consumption is free. This is made so by the insurance, that asks a flat fee or premium. This defines a decision structure in which the patient is consuming health care without paying the market price or, if she participates in the costs, below market prices. This is the essence of a free good, though, maybe I should have been more explicit.

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    Re: The U.S. Economy Can't Hire Health-Care Workers Fast Enough

    Quote Originally Posted by jpn View Post
    US health care is far more costly per capita than other developed nations, we get middling results, and we still don't cover everyone. As long as we keep relying on "for-profit" providers, this won't change.


    50 hospitals charge uninsured more than 10 times cost of care, study finds - The Washington Post

    Ah yes, the "magic of the marketplace."

    Yeah, we should base national policy on what we see in fictional TV shows.
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    Re: The U.S. Economy Can't Hire Health-Care Workers Fast Enough

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I did not say health care did not cost anything, but for the consumer the act of consumption is free. This is made so by the insurance, that asks a flat fee or premium. This defines a decision structure in which the patient is consuming health care without paying the market price or, if she participates in the costs, below market prices. This is the essence of a free good, though, maybe I should have been more explicit.
    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Why would you not expect an industry to expand that produces a good that suddenly is free for all?
    Ok...

    I've yet to see a new plan where there are no premiums and deductibles and copays don't exist.
    Ive been around for a long time and it just seems that the economy does better under the Democrats than the Republicans. -- Donald Trump

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    Re: The U.S. Economy Can't Hire Health-Care Workers Fast Enough

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Yeah, we should base national policy on what we see in fictional TV shows.
    You're right, that would be silly.

    How about instead we base national policy on what works for every other developed nation on the planet? That would be guaranteed health coverage for every person as a right of citizenship. Based on their examples, it would cost far less per capita and provide as good or better health care than our disastrous system.
    Once again, U.S. has most expensive, least effective health care system in survey - The Washington Post

    Naaaaah! http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comm...f_clarity_snl/

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    Re: The U.S. Economy Can't Hire Health-Care Workers Fast Enough

    Quote Originally Posted by jpn View Post
    You're right, that would be silly.

    How about instead we base national policy on what works for every other developed nation on the planet? That would be guaranteed health coverage for every person as a right of citizenship. Based on their examples, it would cost far less per capita and provide as good or better health care than our disastrous system.
    Once again, U.S. has most expensive, least effective health care system in survey - The Washington Post

    Naaaaah! Steve Martin's brief moment of clarity (SNL) : atheism
    Nice link. Amazing that the US ranks ahead of France in both quality of care and access to care and France ranks #1 in both this poll as well as WHO's last survey of heath care. I would think those are extremely important criteria. Perhaps there is some bias in weighting the various criteria. Health care seems more important than costs.

    Does the US gain any points for having US affiliated medical researchers winning 27 out of 47 Nobel Prizes for medicine in a recent 20 year period, from 1993 to 2012? It seems as though US innovation probably adds to lower costs in other countries as they benefit from US research.

    Glad that we are not like the UK, with their single payer system that ranks just above the US in 2nd to last place despite ranking first in so many categories.

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