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Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

MathewSmith

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Kalief Browder, a young man from New York City who had gained national renown in recent years as a symbol of America's broken criminal justice system, took his own life this weekend, according to a report from The New Yorker. He was 22.

The Death Of Kalief Browder Is An 'American Tragedy Almost Beyond Words'

They broke his mind keeping him in solitary. He was too young to survive such torture. RIP. They won't hurt you anymore. What can I say...I'm not afraid of ISIS, I'm not afraid of Russia, I'm not afraid of Boko Haram, I'm not afraid of parachute jump. I'm afraid of our American Justice System. There are many people responsible for this young death. Unfortunately, l doubt that any of them will ever pay a price.
 
If it can happen to 1 person, it can happen to a 1,000. Our prisons are becoming places where petty thieves are turned into hardened criminals and innocents are physically and psychologically destroyed. The only ones that have it easy are the ones that have no hope of ever getting out.
 
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Kalief Browder, a young man from New York City who had gained national renown in recent years as a symbol of America's broken criminal justice system, took his own life this weekend, according to a report from The New Yorker. He was 22.

The Death Of Kalief Browder Is An 'American Tragedy Almost Beyond Words'

They broke his mind keeping him in solitary. He was too young to survive such torture. RIP. They won't hurt you anymore. What can I say...I'm not afraid of ISIS, I'm not afraid of Russia, I'm not afraid of Boko Haram, I'm not afraid of parachute jump. I'm afraid of our American Justice System. There are many people responsible for this young death. Unfortunately, l doubt that any of them will ever pay a price.

It's impossible to know, from the video, what part the young man played in his own troubles in the jail. In each of the first two incidents I saw in the video, he said something to the guard and he also said something to one of the other inmates and then started the incident by punching another of the inmates in the face. Unless we know what he said, we can't know why he was attacked. And in the gang attack, he started the fight so he got what he deserved.

Secondly, I'd note that in the first incident, with the guards, all the guards who roughed him up were black. In the second incident, the two guards who protected him and got him to safety were white.

Thirdly, he was out of the jail for 2 and a half years before he killed himself - what happened both to him and for him in those intervening years between jail and death? Anyone know?

Finally, I'd say this video does nothing to support the "black lives matter" nonsense since I didn't see a single black person in the video who gave a **** about black life they were trying to end.

This video says more about blacks in America than it does about the American Justice System. Americans should be glad these less than humans are off the streets.
 
Why aren't all of DP's constitutional scholars up in arms over this?

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial
 
Why aren't all of DP's constitutional scholars up in arms over this?

The thing is that he didn't plead affluenza. He also wasn't evading taxes. Oh, and he wasn't trying deny gays any kind of rights. So you know...
 
Being jailed for years without trial isn't even a new thing . This deplorable act of abuse in power and neglect is an issue that all people of all skin tones must address .Where the right to a speedy trial is being disregarded ,and in this case at the cost of incarcerating an innocent male.
 
It's impossible to know, from the video, what part the young man played in his own troubles in the jail. In each of the first two incidents I saw in the video, he said something to the guard and he also said something to one of the other inmates and then started the incident by punching another of the inmates in the face. Unless we know what he said, we can't know why he was attacked. And in the gang attack, he started the fight so he got what he deserved.

Secondly, I'd note that in the first incident, with the guards, all the guards who roughed him up were black. In the second incident, the two guards who protected him and got him to safety were white.

Thirdly, he was out of the jail for 2 and a half years before he killed himself - what happened both to him and for him in those intervening years between jail and death? Anyone know?

Finally, I'd say this video does nothing to support the "black lives matter" nonsense since I didn't see a single black person in the video who gave a **** about black life they were trying to end.

This video says more about blacks in America than it does about the American Justice System. Americans should be glad these less than humans are off the streets.

What hideous, horrible wording. I sincerely hope you're not really intending what this sounds like you're saying.
 
Being jailed for years without trial isn't even a new thing . This deplorable act of abuse in power and neglect is an issue that all people of all skin tones must address .Where the right to a speedy trial is being disregarded ,and in this case at the cost of incarcerating an innocent male.

How do you know he was innocent? How much of the delay could be attributed to the defense, I wonder. Even the article has to concede that delay is often the tactic of the defense. Cases don't get stronger with the passage of time. Maybe that's what happened here and the tactic worked and, as a result, a felony case got dismissed. If the courts are bogged down in New York, it's probably because there are too many pansy ass judges unwilling to make the defense go to trial after the 5th or 6th motion to continue.
 
How do you know he was innocent? How much of the delay could be attributed to the defense, I wonder. Even the article has to concede that delay is often the tactic of the defense. Cases don't get stronger with the passage of time. Maybe that's what happened here and the tactic worked and, as a result, a felony case got dismissed. If the courts are bogged down in New York, it's probably because there are too many pansy ass judges unwilling to make the defense go to trial after the 5th or 6th motion to continue.

"Pansy ass judges" don't want to be impeached or have their rulings tossed on appeal and the state sued for potentially millions for a wrongful conviction

You don't know why the case got dismissed. It could easily be for lack of evidence. He wouldn't take a plea deal, they didn't think they could convict, simple. The tragedy is it took so damn long and he suffered greatly in the process. Hell, even a conviction might have gotten a shorter sentence than how long he spent in that hellhole waiting for trial, think of that.

Public defendants in NYC have on average 1000 clients. That's part and parcel of the broken system. Even a wealthy megapolis like NYC is too cheap to hire more lawyers and judges and build more courtrooms

Yes, delay tactics by the lawyers may have been part of the reason. I'm doubtful though when they're so overburdened with clients they can't keep track of. Either way, it doesn't matter who is to blame, because the constitution mandates an expedient trial.
 
"Pansy ass judges" don't want to be impeached or have their rulings tossed on appeal and the state sued for potentially millions for a wrongful conviction

You don't know why the case got dismissed. It could easily be for lack of evidence. He wouldn't take a plea deal, they didn't think they could convict, simple. The tragedy is it took so damn long and he suffered greatly in the process. Hell, even a conviction might have gotten a shorter sentence than how long he spent in that hellhole waiting for trial, think of that.

Public defendants in NYC have on average 1000 clients. That's part and parcel of the broken system. Even a wealthy megapolis like NYC is too cheap to hire more lawyers and judges and build more courtrooms

Yes, delay tactics by the lawyers may have been part of the reason. I'm doubtful though when they're so overburdened with clients they can't keep track of. Either way, it doesn't matter who is to blame, because the constitution mandates an expedient trial.
Innocent until proven guilty not guilty until proven innocent. Your logic is that of the 16th century where even our founding fathers men of 17th wrote against . You implies that somebody at the time who was a teenager who spent two cumulatively yearsout of 3 in solitary confinement which is a method of torture used to get information from suspected terrorist delayed his trial and endured beatings is not only inane but undermines this issue as it is not the first time this has happened.Cancer victim kept in solitary confinement for 2 years without trial wins millions ? RT USA
 
Thank God that our illustrious Congress, by way of the NDAA Amendment a few years back, did away with Habeas Corpus.

This is a fine example of how corrupt the US criminal justice system is.
 
Why aren't all of DP's constitutional scholars up in arms over this?

How quickly do you want people to respond to something posted at 4am Eastern time? Browder was clearly denied a speedy trial and there should be an investigation.

It should also be noted that as this Reason.com article points out, this is indeed a bigger problem with the New York court system.
 
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"Pansy ass judges" don't want to be impeached or have their rulings tossed on appeal and the state sued for potentially millions for a wrongful conviction

You don't know why the case got dismissed. It could easily be for lack of evidence. He wouldn't take a plea deal, they didn't think they could convict, simple. The tragedy is it took so damn long and he suffered greatly in the process. Hell, even a conviction might have gotten a shorter sentence than how long he spent in that hellhole waiting for trial, think of that.

Public defendants in NYC have on average 1000 clients. That's part and parcel of the broken system. Even a wealthy megapolis like NYC is too cheap to hire more lawyers and judges and build more courtrooms

Yes, delay tactics by the lawyers may have been part of the reason. I'm doubtful though when they're so overburdened with clients they can't keep track of. Either way, it doesn't matter who is to blame, because the constitution mandates an expedient trial.

You're right, I know nothing of the circumstances surrounding this case. I am aware of people in my city being in jail for a year or a year and a half before trial (not 3) but that's usually people facing either a very serious charge or many charges and prison time is highly likely anyway.

The speedy trial thing actually has a whole line of case law and it's a very specific analysis as to whether someone was denied one or not and the defenses actions that cause delay do play a part. Right now, only the defendant is the one with a right to a speedy trial (and like every other right, it can be waived). If the concern is people jailed on unadjudicated offenses, would you support giving the state/prosecution the same right to a speedy trial?
 
I found a little bit more information. He suffered from paranoia and depression after being jailed in Rikers for 3 years. The crime was taking a backpack - which he always denied. He finally hung himself. There are several videos of him being beaten by gang bangers and guards in prison. The situation is really tragic.
 
What hideous, horrible wording. I sincerely hope you're not really intending what this sounds like you're saying.

If you want to support and excuse the young black men portrayed in this video, go right ahead. I called it as I saw it. Sometimes the truth is brutal but that doesn't mean it should be suppressed.
 
New York needs to repair its system if backlogs of two years is common. I don't know what percent 400 people incarcerated for two years without some sort of disposition of the case is.

From Buzzfeed:

Browder’s story prompted a closer look at problems at Rikers; it turned out he was one of many people caught in the backlog of the jail and the state court system.

“This happens every day, and I feel like it’s got to stop,” he told the Huffington Post in 2013.

In response to telling his story, he received thousands of letters from people expressing their sympathy and support, Prestia said.

“He recognized that [support], and he appreciated that,” Prestia said.

According to a New York Times report earlier this year, 400 people were being held at Rikers for more than two years without a conviction. http://www.buzzfeed.com/claudiakoer...kers-for-three-years-without-conv#.bhW0YVgmbV

I don't know that Browder's suicide should be laid at the feet of the justice system, though. He had been free for two years. He clearly did have sympathy and support, and none of us knows the particulars of his mental health or whether he was receiving treatment for depression. This tragic story makes for a great headline, but is it fair?
 
Lil' Wayne did a stint at Riker's Island. He spent some time in solitary for having a cell phone. He has said that he will never do a concert in New York. Never.
You know that he had a good attorney. He pleaded guilty. He said that Riker's Island is a hell hole.

The writ of Habeas Corpus bleeds in America.
The guy should have sued. Three years to trial? Two of that combined in solitary, without a conviction. That makes my head spin.
 
If you want to support and excuse the young black men portrayed in this video, go right ahead. I called it as I saw it. Sometimes the truth is brutal but that doesn't mean it should be suppressed.

Jailed without trial. JAILED WITHOUT TRIAL.
 
What's sadder is that apparently he had no one on the outside the least bit worried about him. Where are his parents in this?
 
Jailed without trial. JAILED WITHOUT TRIAL.

Tell us why. Do you know, or are you just assuming the worst?

Why no bail? First time offense? Stealing a backpack and staying locked up for 3 years isn't normal, so what's the reason?

Is the justice system responsible for the seeming lack of care his family got him for the 2 and a half years he was out of jail after the charges were dropped? Does every juvenile who gets in trouble commit suicide when they get out?
 
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Tell us why. Do you know, or are you just assuming the worst?

Why no bail? First time offense? Stealing a backpack and staying locked up for 3 years isn't normal, so what's the reason?

Is the justice system responsible for the seeming lack of care his family got him for the 2 and a half years he was out of jail after the charges were dropped? Does every juvenile who gets in trouble commit suicide when they get out?

Being locked up for 3 years without trial, regardless of reason, isn't just abnormal, it's a violation of basic civil rights. Bail is irrelevant. That length of time fits no conceivable definition of a "speedy" trial.
 
1. Extended periods of solitary confinement is torture and often leads to temporary and permanent mental illness and suicide. It should not be used on anyone, especially minors.

2. No one should be kept imprisoned for that long without a conviction.

3. We need to wonder how many people in his situation plead guilty to get out of a jail that is even worse than prison.
 
Being locked up for 3 years without trial, regardless of reason, isn't just abnormal, it's a violation of basic civil rights. Bail is irrelevant. That length of time fits no conceivable definition of a "speedy" trial.

It does if the reason for the extended stay in jail was at his or his agent's bidding.

You seem satisfied to be comfortable in your ignorance and let that smugly guide your way. I'd prefer to have all the facts before I draw any conclusions. The one fact we are aware of, however, is that his suicide came more than 2 and a half years after he was released from the jail. Blaming the justice system for his suicide is thus a stretch at best and more appropriately a convenient scapegoat for all the people in his immediate life who seem to have failed him.
 
It does if the reason for the extended stay in jail was at his or his agent's bidding.

You seem satisfied to be comfortable in your ignorance and let that smugly guide your way. I'd prefer to have all the facts before I draw any conclusions. The one fact we are aware of, however, is that his suicide came more than 2 and a half years after he was released from the jail. Blaming the justice system for his suicide is thus a stretch at best and more appropriately a convenient scapegoat for all the people in his immediate life who seem to have failed him.

At his or his agents bidding? Laughable.

Fine. Gather your facts and get back to us. See if you can come up with some kind of evidence that he wanted to stay in jail without a trial.

Did you notice in this conversation that i haven't once mentioned his suicide, or are you going to smugly ignore what I write while attacking this straw man some more?
 
At his or his agents bidding? Laughable.

Fine. Gather your facts and get back to us. See if you can come up with some kind of evidence that he wanted to stay in jail without a trial.

Did you notice in this conversation that i haven't once mentioned his suicide, or are you going to smugly ignore what I write while attacking this straw man some more?

Why should I gather the facts when you and the OP claim that the justice system is to blame. You claim it was wrong for him to be in jail for 3 years without a trial - so prove why it's wrong and not perfectly legal.

Only straw man being paraded around here is the one that says the justice department is to blame.
 
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