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Thread: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

  1. #41
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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    It does if the reason for the extended stay in jail was at his or his agent's bidding.

    You seem satisfied to be comfortable in your ignorance and let that smugly guide your way. I'd prefer to have all the facts before I draw any conclusions. The one fact we are aware of, however, is that his suicide came more than 2 and a half years after he was released from the jail. Blaming the justice system for his suicide is thus a stretch at best and more appropriately a convenient scapegoat for all the people in his immediate life who seem to have failed him.
    I didn't know you had mastered the ways of psychology. Great, let's have a little conversation. I'll invite a mental health professional to the conversation so that they can give us their point of view once this conversation gets a little further along. However, I doubt you'll stick around that long.

    Would you say that psychological disorders born out of strenuous situations end when that person is no longer in that situation? How long does PTSD last? Does it stop being an issue after 2 years? What about depression? When does it end? From what I understand depression works by episode. Do you believe it unlikely that this person may have seen fine for the first year and then developed a depressive episode later on? Seeing as how much you understand of psychological illnesses, I was hoping you could clear these up.

    Furthermore, does your stance apply to every situation regarding such situations and suicide? For example, say a soldier develops PTSD while in Iraq. If they commit suicide 2 years later, can their experiences throughout the war no longer be blamed for their suicide because of how long it has been? Or do we blame his wife for 'failing' him even though she may not be mental health professional?

    Say a child is molested by his uncle for 3 years and commits suicide 2 years after the last incident. Did the parent fail the child or does the child's suicide lay squarely on the shoulders of those who actually caused him to have such feelings in the first place?

    Because I know for a fact that you won't have a consistent answer to these questions, it seems to me like you're trying to scapegoat pretty much everything in this kid's life except for the very system which incarcerated him, denied him a speedy trial, and then basically forgot about him until the public outcry was way too much. That's just what's obvious to everyone in this thread though.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 06-09-15 at 11:53 PM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  2. #42
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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    He should have been compensated for the years of his life that he lost and offered counseling.

    Not the justice system, but society has a responsibility to help mentally ill people who can not afford care. Mental health care is extremely difficult to access in the USA if you can't afford to pay for it. Even people who attempt suicide are routinely sent home from the hospital just a few days after being hospitalized.
    Again, I've seen no one who's posted evidence that the time he spent in jail was the sole result of the justice system and not partially related to him and to his representatives. Did he seek bail? Was he denied bail and if so why - prior incidents? Did he seek a speedy trial or did he and his representatives delay trial? How many times did he appear in court related to the charges? Were the charges held over on his counsel's request? In the 2 and a half years since release, did he or his family seek compensation? Help for him? Care for him?

    Why was he in solitary confinement? Was it for his own safety or because of his actions in jail? In the video, in the gang beating, he is the one who threw the first punch. In the video, he said something to the first guard before he was taken down - what did he say?

    Do you have answers for any of this? Or is it just convenient for the justice system to be blamed for a family failing their child and a child taking his own life? One thing we can agree on, I presume, is that his family will be front and center now as they try to collect lottery winnings off the death of their son.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

  3. #43
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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    You called human beings "less than human." That's actually the exact opposite of the truth.
    The actions of the black youth in this video kicking, stomping, beating, etc. another human being is not human behaviour - I see by your avatar that you're totally blind to black violence against fellow blacks. It's convenient for you to ignore or excuse it. Too bad - your excusing such behaviour is a big part of the problem.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    The actions of the black youth in this video kicking, stomping, beating, etc. another human being is not human behaviour
    It is, quite literally, human behavior. LOL. Your racism is noted though. Guess you couldn't hold it in any longer, eh?

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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by MathewSmith View Post
    Kalief Browder, a young man from New York City who had gained national renown in recent years as a symbol of America's broken criminal justice system, took his own life this weekend, according to a report from The New Yorker. He was 22.

    The Death Of Kalief Browder Is An 'American Tragedy Almost Beyond Words'

    They broke his mind keeping him in solitary. He was too young to survive such torture. RIP. They won't hurt you anymore. What can I say...I'm not afraid of ISIS, I'm not afraid of Russia, I'm not afraid of Boko Haram, I'm not afraid of parachute jump. I'm afraid of our American Justice System. There are many people responsible for this young death. Unfortunately, l doubt that any of them will ever pay a price.
    I am a skeptic. When I see stories like this I always look for the other side of the story. There isn't another side to this story. This poor kid was abused by the system in a way that should not happen in this country. Those responsible should be punished.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    I am a skeptic. When I see stories like this I always look for the other side of the story. There isn't another side to this story. This poor kid was abused by the system in a way that should not happen in this country. Those responsible should be punished.
    Don't you get it? If you spend 3 years in prison, you NEVER receive a trial and you're come out with some mental illness, there is a possibility that this may all be your fault. That's why CanadaJohn is asking all of his questions. He's really concerned with the possibility that somehow, this may all be that kid's fault and the system itself may not be to blame for it. As we all know, New York's correctional facilities are top notch, its bureaucracy expedites all cases and its police officers are rarely (if ever!) caught misusing their authority.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Happened under obamas watch

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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    I am a skeptic. When I see stories like this I always look for the other side of the story. There isn't another side to this story. This poor kid was abused by the system in a way that should not happen in this country. Those responsible should be punished.
    True, the boy got a rotten deal. But, and this is the big BUT - you have to be able to draw a correlation between his time in jail and his suicide. Since there are HUNDREDS of inmates sitting in NYC jails under the SAME conditions, no trials, some for longer than this boy, yet the come out and do not commit suicide, how can you prove the correlation. What happened to the boy was legal - and this incident, hopefully - will bring about a change in the system. You cannot punish law enforcement for following the rules. You can, however, advocate for changing the rules.

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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Don't you get it? If you spend 3 years in prison, you NEVER receive a trial and you're come out with some mental illness, there is a possibility that this may all be your fault. That's why CanadaJohn is asking all of his questions. He's really concerned with the possibility that somehow, this may all be that kid's fault and the system itself may not be to blame for it. As we all know, New York's correctional facilities are top notch, its bureaucracy expedites all cases and its police officers are rarely (if ever!) caught misusing their authority.
    Don't I get what? WTF are you talking about, or are you just talking to hear yourself?
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by HowardBThiname View Post
    True, the boy got a rotten deal. But, and this is the big BUT - you have to be able to draw a correlation between his time in jail and his suicide. Since there are HUNDREDS of inmates sitting in NYC jails under the SAME conditions, no trials, some for longer than this boy, yet the come out and do not commit suicide, how can you prove the correlation. What happened to the boy was legal - and this incident, hopefully - will bring about a change in the system. You cannot punish law enforcement for following the rules. You can, however, advocate for changing the rules.
    To the best of my knowledge defendants are due a speedy trial. In Florida that's actually what they call it. There are time limits for arraignment, a bail hearing and trial. Three years is outside the limits of speedy trial. If I have an issue with this it's that someone didn't follow the rules for civil trial.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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