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Thread: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

  1. #21
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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Tell us why. Do you know, or are you just assuming the worst?

    Why no bail? First time offense? Stealing a backpack and staying locked up for 3 years isn't normal, so what's the reason?

    Is the justice system responsible for the seeming lack of care his family got him for the 2 and a half years he was out of jail after the charges were dropped? Does every juvenile who gets in trouble commit suicide when they get out?
    Being locked up for 3 years without trial, regardless of reason, isn't just abnormal, it's a violation of basic civil rights. Bail is irrelevant. That length of time fits no conceivable definition of a "speedy" trial.
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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    1. Extended periods of solitary confinement is torture and often leads to temporary and permanent mental illness and suicide. It should not be used on anyone, especially minors.

    2. No one should be kept imprisoned for that long without a conviction.

    3. We need to wonder how many people in his situation plead guilty to get out of a jail that is even worse than prison.

  3. #23
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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Being locked up for 3 years without trial, regardless of reason, isn't just abnormal, it's a violation of basic civil rights. Bail is irrelevant. That length of time fits no conceivable definition of a "speedy" trial.
    It does if the reason for the extended stay in jail was at his or his agent's bidding.

    You seem satisfied to be comfortable in your ignorance and let that smugly guide your way. I'd prefer to have all the facts before I draw any conclusions. The one fact we are aware of, however, is that his suicide came more than 2 and a half years after he was released from the jail. Blaming the justice system for his suicide is thus a stretch at best and more appropriately a convenient scapegoat for all the people in his immediate life who seem to have failed him.
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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    It does if the reason for the extended stay in jail was at his or his agent's bidding.

    You seem satisfied to be comfortable in your ignorance and let that smugly guide your way. I'd prefer to have all the facts before I draw any conclusions. The one fact we are aware of, however, is that his suicide came more than 2 and a half years after he was released from the jail. Blaming the justice system for his suicide is thus a stretch at best and more appropriately a convenient scapegoat for all the people in his immediate life who seem to have failed him.
    At his or his agents bidding? Laughable.

    Fine. Gather your facts and get back to us. See if you can come up with some kind of evidence that he wanted to stay in jail without a trial.

    Did you notice in this conversation that i haven't once mentioned his suicide, or are you going to smugly ignore what I write while attacking this straw man some more?
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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    At his or his agents bidding? Laughable.

    Fine. Gather your facts and get back to us. See if you can come up with some kind of evidence that he wanted to stay in jail without a trial.

    Did you notice in this conversation that i haven't once mentioned his suicide, or are you going to smugly ignore what I write while attacking this straw man some more?
    Why should I gather the facts when you and the OP claim that the justice system is to blame. You claim it was wrong for him to be in jail for 3 years without a trial - so prove why it's wrong and not perfectly legal.

    Only straw man being paraded around here is the one that says the justice department is to blame.
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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    You're right, I know nothing of the circumstances surrounding this case. I am aware of people in my city being in jail for a year or a year and a half before trial (not 3) but that's usually people facing either a very serious charge or many charges and prison time is highly likely anyway.
    There are many, actually:
    As of late March, over 400 people had been locked up for more than two years without being convicted of a crime, according to city data that is to be released publicly for the first time. And there are currently a half-dozen people at Rikers who have been waiting on pending cases for more than six years.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/14/ny...lays.html?_r=1

    What happened to this young man was wrong, but it's not an isolated case, and, since he was released nearly three years ago - his suicide was very likely not related.

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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Why should I gather the facts when you and the OP claim that the justice system is to blame. You claim it was wrong for him to be in jail for 3 years without a trial - so prove why it's wrong and not perfectly legal.

    Only straw man being paraded around here is the one that says the justice department is to blame.

    Sixth amendment to the United States constitution.
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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    You're right, I know nothing of the circumstances surrounding this case. I am aware of people in my city being in jail for a year or a year and a half before trial (not 3) but that's usually people facing either a very serious charge or many charges and prison time is highly likely anyway.

    The speedy trial thing actually has a whole line of case law and it's a very specific analysis as to whether someone was denied one or not and the defenses actions that cause delay do play a part. Right now, only the defendant is the one with a right to a speedy trial (and like every other right, it can be waived). If the concern is people jailed on unadjudicated offenses, would you support giving the state/prosecution the same right to a speedy trial?
    On further reflection, i suppose another factor may have been the length of time he spent in solitary. It sounds like he was abused in prison though, which is even more abhorrent for someone who hasn't even had trial.

    A speedy trial would only have benefited this kid or anyone in similar position. He might even not be dead now

    See the whole idea of 'innocent until proven guilty' and frankly any justice system worthy of the name is you're aren't locked away like a caged animal and abused before even facing a trial. The whole bail system is ****ed. You can practically buy your way out of anything - a soccer player here punched a ref, who fell and hit his head and eventually died, and the player even fled immediately, yet was released on bail after killing someone - but if a poor 16 year old accused of petty theft (a backpack, seriously?), you may as well be guilty until proven innocent. This is why tons of innocent people take plea deals. This kid clung to his innocence, and for that he paid dearly.

    That sounds more like something out of "red corner"
    Last edited by chromium; 06-09-15 at 06:05 PM.

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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by d0gbreath View Post
    Lil' Wayne did a stint at Riker's Island. He spent some time in solitary for having a cell phone. He has said that he will never do a concert in New York. Never.
    You know that he had a good attorney. He pleaded guilty. He said that Riker's Island is a hell hole.

    The writ of Habeas Corpus bleeds in America.
    The guy should have sued. Three years to trial? Two of that combined in solitary, without a conviction. That makes my head spin.
    He was 16, how to sue? He didn't even know his basic rights such as a speedy trial i'm sure. Minors have to be protected, and that includes those accused of crimes

    I'm sure his family will sue the piss out of them though

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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by Un biased View Post
    Innocent until proven guilty not guilty until proven innocent. Your logic is that of the 16th century where even our founding fathers men of 17th wrote against . You implies that somebody at the time who was a teenager who spent two cumulatively yearsout of 3 in solitary confinement which is a method of torture used to get information from suspected terrorist delayed his trial and endured beatings is not only inane but undermines this issue as it is not the first time this has happened.Cancer victim kept in solitary confinement for 2 years without trial wins millions ? RT USA
    i have no idea who you're talking to here

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