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Thread: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Good grief, thanks for posting the evidence contradicting your claims:

    Three Years on Rikers Without Trial - The New Yorker



    and here it is:





    So you have NOTHING to show that they should have been able to afford it? Good.
    Hilarious, you quote a source that says precisely what post #116 said while still maintaining it was all made up by some internet dude.

    This rule stipulates that all felony cases (except homicides) must be ready for trial within six months of arraignment, or else the charges can be dismissed. In practice, however, this time limit is subject to technicalities. The clock stops for many reasons—for example, when defense attorneys submit motions before trial—so that the amount of time that is officially held to have elapsed can be wildly different from the amount of time that really has. In 2011, seventy-four per cent of felony cases in the Bronx were older than six months.

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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    So 3 years is a reasonable period. Yes? I just want to know how far you'll go in this absurd argument.
    I don't think it is, but the law on speedy trials in NY says it can be. As explained to those who actually read the law, and to some extent the links you just posted, there are a multitude of factors that control the timing of the trial.

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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by MathewSmith View Post
    Kalief Browder, a young man from New York City who had gained national renown in recent years as a symbol of America's broken criminal justice system, took his own life this weekend, according to a report from The New Yorker. He was 22.

    The Death Of Kalief Browder Is An 'American Tragedy Almost Beyond Words'

    They broke his mind keeping him in solitary. He was too young to survive such torture. RIP. They won't hurt you anymore. What can I say...I'm not afraid of ISIS, I'm not afraid of Russia, I'm not afraid of Boko Haram, I'm not afraid of parachute jump. I'm afraid of our American Justice System. There are many people responsible for this young death. Unfortunately, l doubt that any of them will ever pay a price.
    They got his parents to sign away the right to a speedy trial and then just kept delaying the trial because he kept insisting on having one. This kind of abuse of the process is common.

    Having said that, connecting his eventual suicide over 2 years after his release with his experience in jail is strained at best. He didn't sound like someone whose spirit had been broken in his interviews afterwards.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Hilarious, you quote a source that says precisely what post #116 said while still maintaining it was all made up by some internet dude.
    Hilarious? I posted it because I expected to be intellectually efficient enough to do more than pretend you understood the source. It was THE PEOPLE who asked for those extensions, not the defendant. Continuing to blame the defendant for a backlog which was out of his hands and a prosecution which wasn't ready to go to trial after even 2 years just makes you look desperate for something to grasp on. Are you trying to purposely insult the intelligence of the adults here? Because that's what you're doing.

    1. You're expecting us to believe that 3 years falls within the scope of "reasonable" (post 167).
    2. You've argued - without ANY evidence - that his family should have been able to afford $300. When asked to substantiate this, you've done nothing but run (post 154).
    3. You've denied that 6 months is how long the prosecution had to make a case and bring this all to trial. Then contradicted this with your own source (post 154).

    You've essentially claimed that it was the defendant's fault that the system took too long; that the judicial system's understanding of 'reasonable' waiting period for a trial is 6x as long as stated within the law. Finally, even though EVERYONE - except CanadaJohn, the oblivious racist - seems to be in agreement that the system ****ed up, you're contending that this can all be explained away by blaming the one person in this situation who had the least power. You're either trolling the hell out of us or expecting to be as consistently dishonest as yourself. Which is it?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Hilarious? I posted it because I expected to be intellectually efficient enough to do more than pretend you understood the source. It was THE PEOPLE who asked for those extensions, not the defendant. Continuing to blame the defendant for a backlog which was out of his hands and a prosecution which wasn't ready to go to trial after even 2 years just makes you look desperate for something to grasp on. Are you trying to purposely insult the intelligence of the adults here? Because that's what you're doing.

    1. You're expecting us to believe that 3 years falls within the scope of "reasonable" (post 167).
    2. You've argued - without ANY evidence - that his family should have been able to afford $300. When asked to substantiate this, you've done nothing but run (post 154).
    3. You've denied that 6 months is how long the prosecution had to make a case and bring this all to trial. Then contradicted this with your own source (post 154).

    You've essentially claimed that it was the defendant's fault that the system took too long; that the judicial system's understanding of 'reasonable' waiting period for a trial is 6x as long as stated within the law. Finally, even though EVERYONE - except CanadaJohn, the oblivious racist - seems to be in agreement that the system ****ed up, you're contending that this can all be explained away by blaming the one person in this situation who had the least power. You're either trolling the hell out of us or expecting to be as consistently dishonest as yourself. Which is it?
    Great, just keep repeating the same old busted argument, ignore where you've got it wrong, let that just drop away and then retailor your argument and mine. How dishonest.

    The fact of the matter is there is a speedy trial requirement written into the law. It lays a basic timeline of what constitutes a speedy trial and also informs of exceptions. MANY exceptions and events that legally stop the clock. Despite your assumption the prosecutor's actions delayed the trial, the law does not allow that except in very limited cases (none mentioned here). Are you seriously proposing his defense attorney filed no pre-trial motions. filed no motions at all (both are clock stoppers)?

    Considering the COL in NY and the fact these are foster parents running a foster home, $300 is doable for an emergency. But hey, no proof would be good enough for you. You desperately do not want your argument to be shown for what it is, broken.

    Your rewriting and/or tortured reading of my posts which you reference shows you simply run away from clear language that you cannot rebut.

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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Great, just keep repeating the same old busted argument, ignore where you've got it wrong, let that just drop away and then retailor your argument and mine. How dishonest.
    Lmao - YOU posted the evidence that 6 months is how long the people have the make a case and then posted some exception hoping that we'd all ignore the fact that even AFTER 3 YEARS, the prosecution still didn't have a case. When you go down that line it's absolutely impossible to not see you as anything other than dishonest. You yourself agreed that 3 years does not fit a definition of REASONABLE and now you're sitting here telling us that we've been dishonest? Who are you trying to fool?

    The fact of the matter is there is a speedy trial requirement written into the law. It lays a basic timeline of what constitutes a speedy trial and also informs of exceptions. MANY exceptions and events that legally stop the clock. Despite your assumption the prosecutor's actions delayed the trial, the law does not allow that except in very limited cases (none mentioned here). Are you seriously proposing his defense attorney filed no pre-trial motions. filed no motions at all (both are clock stoppers)?
    It's obvious that you don't even understand the very links you keep arguing support your points:

    On January 28, 2011, Browder’s two-hundred-and-fifty-eighth day in jail, he was brought back to the courthouse once again. This time, the prosecutor said, “The People are not ready. We are requesting one week.” The next court date set by the judge—March 9th—was not one week away but six. As it happened, Browder didn’t go to trial anytime that year. An index card in the court file explains:

    June 23, 2011: People not ready, request 1 week.
    August 24, 2011: People not ready, request 1 day.
    November 4, 2011: People not ready, prosecutor on trial, request 2 weeks.
    December 2, 2011: Prosecutor on trial, request January 3rd.
    Continuing to claim that the prosecutors actions did not delay the trial is ABSOLUTE DISHONESTY at this point.

    Considering the COL in NY and the fact these are foster parents running a foster home, $300 is doable for an emergency. But hey, no proof would be good enough for you. You desperately do not want your argument to be shown for what it is, broken.
    So no evidence period? Good. Just conjecture. I figured.

    Your rewriting and/or tortured reading of my posts which you reference shows you simply run away from clear language that you cannot rebut.
    It's almost like you refuse to read anything which consistently refutes your statements.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...himself-6.html (Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself)

    So many things dont add up. In the interview with both of his lawyers they say that he had in fact NOT previously been convicted of anything and that there was no youthful offender status applied.

    Is 16 considered a minor or an adult in NYC?

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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    I don't think it is, but the law on speedy trials in NY says it can be. As explained to those who actually read the law, and to some extent the links you just posted, there are a multitude of factors that control the timing of the trial.
    I appreciate your efforts here. I just have to say it's a losing battle trying to counter irrational emotion, the typical liberal base for all arguments, with facts and the law - many liberals just haven't the mental capacity to understand the concept of facts and law and so they resort to their base emotions.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Incidentally, Browder's claims about his experience at Rikers Island are consistent with findings from a recent report commissioned by the New York City Board of Correction. The report, obtained by The Associated Press, notes that the use of force by staff has more than tripled from 2004 to 2013, from seven incidents of force per 100 inmates, to almost 25. Additionally, the number of self-mutilation and suicide attempts by Rikers inmates have increased by 75 percent from 2007 to 2012. According to the report, 40 percent of the city jailís 12,200 inmates are mentally ill, and many of these inmates are placed in solitary confinement "holes" as punishment.
    Kalief Browder's Lawyer Paul Prestia Says Incarceration Was 'Direct Cause' Of Client's Suicide

    Teen Thrown In Violent New York Jail For Years Without Ever Having Been Convicted

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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I appreciate your efforts here. I just have to say it's a losing battle trying to counter irrational emotion, the typical liberal base for all arguments, with facts and the law - many liberals just haven't the mental capacity to understand the concept of facts and law and so they resort to their base emotions.
    You called humans "less than human" and generalized an entire race because of one video. That's irrational emotion and the exact opposite of facts. You're projecting in a MAJOR way.

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