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Thread: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

  1. #141
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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    What does a felony criminal record have to do with anything?

    You don't get to make up facts. This is from the story. If you have other evidence, please present it: (the People is the prosecutor)
    It answers part of YOUR post that I quoted when I responded to it. Here you go:

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post

    The "attorney filings" were by the prosecutor, approved by the judge, and every "one week" delay request turned into 6 or 8 weeks. What could the defendant do about it? Besides plead guilty, have a criminal record, lose his right to vote in many states, right to various aid programs, right to own a firearm. Sure, why not plead guilty?
    As I said, that horse had already left the barn. He had a previous felony conviction.

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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Was he on probation? And for a felony? If the answer is yes to both those then you need to understand what it is to be on felony probation. Why there is even such a thing as probation. One of the conditions is that you are not even to be charged with another crime, that you stay far away from situations where you might be.
    You said "commit" a felony. He was charged with a crime. It's an important distinction - the whole 'presumed innocent' thing....

    And how in the world is a kid supposed to "stay far away from situations" where he might be UNJUSTLY CHARGED with a crime he didn't commit, assuming he's innocent since that is the best evidence we have.

    Sheesh, the effort a few are going through to defend the indefensible is pretty astounding.

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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    The thing is that the clock wasn't set back. By New York's own laws his trial should have happened within 6 months. What he seems to want to do is blame the damn kid for city's backlog. That's even sillier than claiming with such pompous authority that the poorest in NYC can afford $300 for bail.
    Read post number 116. It rebuts what you believe.

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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    It answers part of YOUR post that I quoted when I responded to it. Here you go:

    As I said, that horse had already left the barn. He had a previous felony conviction.
    His record was as a juvenile. That matters, or at least it does in Tennessee, a great deal. Those records are sealed and don't follow you around for life like a guilty plea as an adult.

    And you claimed the delay was caused by filings by his lawyer, the defense. Present evidence for that claim, or back off it.

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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You said "commit" a felony. He was charged with a crime. It's an important distinction - the whole 'presumed innocent' thing....

    And how in the world is a kid supposed to "stay far away from situations" where he might be UNJUSTLY CHARGED with a crime he didn't commit, assuming he's innocent since that is the best evidence we have.

    Sheesh, the effort a few are going through to defend the indefensible is pretty astounding.
    Once again you seem to not understand the terms of felony probation. In many states, if you are on felony probation you are ineligible for bail on any future felony charges (while on probation). Sheesh, the effort a few are going through to twist and misunderstand in order to carry their arguments is astounding.

  6. #146
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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    His record was as a juvenile. That matters, or at least it does in Tennessee, a great deal. Those records are sealed and don't follow you around for life like a guilty plea as an adult.

    And you claimed the delay was caused by filings by his lawyer, the defense. Present evidence for that claim, or back off it.
    This wasn't TN. See post number 116.

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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You said "commit" a felony. He was charged with a crime. It's an important distinction - the whole 'presumed innocent' thing....

    And how in the world is a kid supposed to "stay far away from situations" where he might be UNJUSTLY CHARGED with a crime he didn't commit, assuming he's innocent since that is the best evidence we have.

    Sheesh, the effort a few are going through to defend the indefensible is pretty astounding.
    It's mental acrobatics 101. His options from the onset were:

    1. Pay bail or go to jail. - Extortion
    2. Go to jail and plead guilty so you can get out faster. - Entrapment

    After it was exposed that those weren't really "options" in any sense of the damn word, he shifted his argument to be about how it's his fault that the clock was stopped and how his family could have afforded it even if they were poorest of NYC. The latter statement is unsubstantiated and refuted by the very fact actual workings of bail. The former, we know to be a lie seeing as the actual motions file didn't request for his file to be held for 6 weeks at a time instead of 1. You're seeing clownboy's approach to debating. When one thing doesn't work, it's move on to the next argument and forget everything previously said.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Read post number 116. It rebuts what you believe.
    LOL, that post is unsubstantiated half truths at best. Yes, if the defense files a motion, while the motion is being considered it tolls the clock.

    In this case, the great bulk of the delay is the prosecutor, years after the indictment, repeatedly going to court and claiming he's not ready for trial and asking for a "one week" delay, which because of the backlog in court turns into 6 or 8 weeks, until 10 or 12 "one week" delays turns into years of delays.

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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    It's mental acrobatics 101. His options from the onset were:

    1. Pay bail or go to jail. - Extortion
    2. Go to jail and plead guilty so you can get out faster. - Entrapment

    After it was exposed that those weren't really "options" in any sense of the damn word, he shifted his argument to be about how it's his fault that the clock was stopped and how his family could have afforded it even if they were poorest of NYC. The latter statement is unsubstantiated and refuted by the very fact actual workings of bail. The former, we know to be a lie seeing as the actual motions file didn't request for his file to be held for 6 weeks at a time instead of 1. You're seeing clownboy's approach to debating. When one thing doesn't work, it's move on to the next argument and forget everything previously said.
    Just keep repeating the same lies and hope they stick through repetition, it's not working for you. Once again, neither bail nor plea bargains are legally defined as extortion or entrapment. No matter how you word the semantic games, reality thwarts your effort.

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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Read post number 116. It rebuts what you believe.
    Lmao, what I believe. Alright, let's look at the post, shall we? Seeing as how you don't actually have a rebuttal of your own. On post 116:

    1. It has absolutely nothing to do with your pompous and unsubstantiated claims that his family should have been able to afford it.
    2. The motions filed in his case requested 1 week at most though there were various, even if you were to group them all together, it wouldn't come close to 3 years in prison.
    3. Unless you're stating that the NYer is wrong, and some guy on the internet is right, there is nothing to discuss here.

    Do you have any other non-arguments you'd like to present? Or are you ready to show his family's financial statements so that we can judge your claim that they should have been able to afford it?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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