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Thread: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

  1. #121
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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Are you being deliberately obtuse? How many times now have I stated that there is certainly a problem with the trial system and that things can and should be done better?
    Maybe I'm just confused why you need to continue to throw things out there as excuses for a system that both of us agree is messed up
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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Correct, but the brush he's using is a broad, racist brush, and he's been given many opportunities to walk it back and refuses to.

    No one disputes the rest of your post above. Using that incident to make conclusions about "blacks" is the issue, and an obvious one.
    Clearly, you didn't read the OP in this thread and you're more invested in interpreting my post to suit your need to call me a racist than you are in understanding what was posted.

    The OP posted the story with video and claimed that this is a "symbol of America's broken criminal justice system". Got it.

    Now, I reviewed the story and reviewed the video and I saw very little that was truly evident about a broken American justice system but I did see a lot of black youth who spat on, kicked, stomped, and beat upon another black youth in the confines of a jail and even with a couple of jail guards trying to control the situation continued to do so. That is what I commented upon. In the context of what happened in Ferguson, what happened and is happening in Baltimore, what's happening daily in Chicago, and in other cities in America, where black on black crime is rampant, where black youth kill other black youth for sport and pleasure, and where respect for others and the property of others is often non-existent, the video in the OP and the actions of these youth said more about blacks in America than it said about the American justice system.

    That is a fact, it is a difficult fact, but it is the truth - I can see you don't like it and so need to misinterpret what I said in order to counter it and claim I'm a racist. That's fine. But don't expect me to change my views of what I saw in this video and what is happening in America today because you find the truth uncomfortable. That's your problem, not mine.
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  3. #123
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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    You do know the POTUS has the absolute power of clemency and pardon, right?
    That should be quoted as post of the day. They got all bent out of shape when he just mentions that murdered black kid could look like one of his kids.......could you imagine the crazy right wing nutz out rage if he pardoned a poor black kid. OMG Hannity, O'Riley and all the other FAUX news nutz would loose their minds if he ever did something like that.

  4. #124
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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    No...he was offered bail options as well as plea bargains. Did you read the stories that were linked?

    Ive not disagreed at all with the right to a speedy trial and have said that there are surely things that can and should be done different. I just actually bothered to objectively look at the story, read multiple accounts, and see both sides rather than just the one that supports my bent.
    I didn't see any bail options. The New Yorker story said that by July 28, 2010, or 2 months after arrest, bail was revoked because he's been charged with a violent felony while on probation. From the story:

    An officer escorted him out of the courtroom and back downstairs to return to Rikers. It no longer mattered whether his mother could find the money to bail him out. The Department of Probation had filed a “violation of probation” against him—standard procedure when someone on probation is indicted on a new violent felony—and the judge had remanded him without bail.
    He was offered plea deals, but so what? It required a guilty plea. We have to assume he was innocent, so expecting someone to plead guilty to a crime he didn't commit, or offering it as a mitigating fact, makes no sense.

  5. #125
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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by americanwoman View Post
    FYI on your #1 some states, like Nebraska, don't have bail bondsmen and you have to post a percentage of the bail yourself, which is then returned if you are convicted or found not guilty. For some it's just not that easy to come up with the money and if you don't have anyone to borrow it from your screwed. I don't know about how NY works though.
    That's along the same principal, although Nebraska does have a couple of bailbondsmen.

    Omaha Bailbonds in Omaha, NE

    Maybe they're setting bond too high? Who knows, but there don't seem to be as many people working in the judicial system as are needed to take care of the criminal element.

    It be nice if we could expedite some of this - but no one really wants the criminals back on the streets. Kids like this one - kids who are already in foster care because they have dysfunctional families - don't have a chance.

    " Adolescents who had been in foster care were nearly four times more likely to have attempted suicide than other youth (Pilowsky & Wu, 2006)."

    That's where the problem started - and most likely what contributed to the young man's suicide.

  6. #126
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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    No...he was offered bail options as well as plea bargains.
    Actually:

    Three Years on Rikers Without Trial - The New Yorker

    Most of the time, however, Browder had no direct contact with O’Meara; the few times he tried to phone him, he couldn’t get through, so he was dependent on his mother to talk to O’Meara on his behalf. Every time Browder got the chance, he asked O’Meara the same question: “Can you get me out?” O’Meara says that he made multiple bail applications on his client’s behalf, but was unsuccessful because of the violation of probation.
    But, because Browder was still on probation, the judge ordered him to be held and set bail at three thousand dollars. The amount was out of reach for his family, and soon Browder found himself aboard a Department of Correction bus.
    It no longer mattered whether his mother could find the money to bail him out. The Department of Probation had filed a “violation of probation” against him—standard procedure when someone on probation is indicted on a new violent felony—and the judge had remanded him without bail.
    So in short, he was offered a bail that was out of reach for his family at the time. In the same early proceedings, his bail was removed and he was put in the custody of the justice system. Then he was offered a plea bargain. Those aren't options. That is extortion followed by entrapment. It's telling people that they either have the money when asked for it, or they'll be sent to jail and given the "choice" of pleading guilty. In spite of the fact that he from the beginning made it clear he wanted to go to trial. The fact that you consider these as "options" is pretty weird.
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  7. #127
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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by Chase View Post
    That should be quoted as post of the day. They got all bent out of shape when he just mentions that murdered black kid could look like one of his kids.......could you imagine the crazy right wing nutz out rage if he pardoned a poor black kid. OMG Hannity, O'Riley and all the other FAUX news nutz would loose their minds if he ever did something like that.
    Yeah, just saying. he has the power. Wasn't at all suggesting it would be a good or prudent move on his part.

  8. #128
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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Maybe I'm just confused why you need to continue to throw things out there as excuses for a system that both of us agree is messed up
    See...theres your problem. If the other possibilities are discussed...it confuses you.

    Maybe. JUST MAYBE...there are other possibilities but REGARDLESS (and as I have said for the last time now) there are things that CAN and SHOULD be done better.

  9. #129
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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Actually:

    Three Years on Rikers Without Trial - The New Yorker







    So in short, he was offered a bail that was out of reach for his family at the time. In the same early proceedings, his bail was removed and he was put in the custody of the justice system. Then he was offered a plea bargain. Those aren't options. That is extortion followed by entrapment. It's telling people that they either have the money when asked for it, or they'll be sent to jail and given the "choice" of pleading guilty. In spite of the fact that he from the beginning made it clear he wanted to go to trial. The fact that you consider these as "options" is pretty weird.
    Except he wouldn't have had to wait the three years had he known that every attorney filing set him back in the queue.

  10. #130
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    Re: Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Actually:

    Three Years on Rikers Without Trial - The New Yorker







    So in short, he was offered a bail that was out of reach for his family at the time. In the same early proceedings, his bail was removed and he was put in the custody of the justice system without bail. Then he was offered a plea bargain. Those aren't options. That is extortion followed by entrapment. It's telling people that they either have the money when asked for it, or they'll be sent to jail and given the "choice" of pleading guilty. In pite of the fact that he from the beginning made it clear he wanted to go to trial. The fact that you consider these as "options" is pretty weird.
    You are right. I misspoke/was wrong with regard to the "remanded without bail" comment.

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