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Thread: President Vladimir Putin tells West not to fear Russia

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    Re: President Vladimir Putin tells West not to fear Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by Dibbler View Post
    As Russia supplies Europe with a large portion of it's energy needs, and honors it's contracts to do so...

    And if you care about Europeans and their general welfare...work, keeping warm in the winter, etc...

    It might be thoughtful, courageous, (setting aside the USSR days), and forward thinking to work with Russia as partner for common goals.
    Oh HELL NO, we can't have that, wth are you thinking.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: President Vladimir Putin tells West not to fear Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Which is why he/they prefer to keep conflicts small, as they have been able to do so far.
    True, and we've been fairly successful with that as well!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: President Vladimir Putin tells West not to fear Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I am afraid, that that type of homily, though, very helpful at times, will tend to desert you, when it is Game Theory you should be applying.
    Any time heads of state say something for an international audience, it tends to be parsed. Language is very analyzed for all nuance, and everything has meaning.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: President Vladimir Putin tells West not to fear Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    I'm not addressing what the US has done or hasn't done. I'm addressing the absurd notion that Russia has noble and altruistic motives. It's not a relative issue with the lesser antagonist being the good guy and public relations winner. You can debate the other part with someone else.
    Russia doesn't, nobody said they do. National foreign policy's are not noble or altruistic, they're practical, and they advance a nations national interests, and that doesn't have much to do with the interests of the nations citizens either, and the US is no exception. Just like we accept the fact that all nations spy on each other, we ought to accept the fact that all nations will **** their neighbors if that's beneficial, or ally themselves with another nation if that serves a benefit, not because the other nation is righteous, noble or "altruistic", instead of this patronizing notion that the US is particularly benevolent, and it and its ally's are the good guys, and "they" are the bad guys. Not that everybody does that, a couple of senior fellows at the CFR have told the truth about Russia, Ukraine and the US.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: President Vladimir Putin tells West not to fear Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Russia doesn't, nobody said they do. National foreign policy's are not noble or altruistic, they're practical, and they advance a nations national interests, and that doesn't have much to do with the interests of the nations citizens either, and the US is no exception. Just like we accept the fact that all nations spy on each other, we ought to accept the fact that all nations will **** their neighbors if that's beneficial, or ally themselves with another nation if that serves a benefit, not because the other nation is righteous, noble or "altruistic", instead of this patronizing notion that the US is particularly benevolent, and it and its ally's are the good guys, and "they" are the bad guys. Not that everybody does that, a couple of senior fellows at the CFR have told the truth about Russia, Ukraine and the US.
    Agreed. I took issue with the statement that Russia "sought peace" without any qualifiers. The lack of qualifiers implies they were selfless in doing so.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: President Vladimir Putin tells West not to fear Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Any time heads of state say something for an international audience, it tends to be parsed. Language is very analyzed for all nuance, and everything has meaning.
    And the meaning is that Putin is a destabilizer and spreading the fire. That might be legitimate. It is certainly pushing the world towards war.

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    Re: President Vladimir Putin tells West not to fear Russia

    Hitler began pressing German claims on the Sudetenland whilst at the same time he told the rest of Europe that Germany were not a threat.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: President Vladimir Putin tells West not to fear Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Agreed. I took issue with the statement that Russia "sought peace" without any qualifiers. The lack of qualifiers implies they were selfless in doing so.
    They are acting along the lines of a strategic game and formulated their goal as a "multipolar international structure" before Iraq2 in accord with Chirac who formulated it in the same words. Putin has kept it up and played the game masterfully ever since, while France recognized the enormous danger to it and desisted. The problem with the multipolar structure is that it is that its solution is not stable and in international security terms that is equivalent to continuing small and large wars. It as good as guarantees a Great War withing the century and possibly before the halfway point is reached.

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    Re: President Vladimir Putin tells West not to fear Russia

    What Mr. Putin says means much less than what he does. And what he does is influenced by what Mr. Obama does--or fails to do. Drawing a phony "red line" regarding Syria's use of chemical weapons, putting ships in place to attack sites in Syria, and then showing it was all a bluff, was just one of many instances in which this president has shown the world he is a weak sister. And his weakness has encouraged not only Putin but all our other actual or potential adversaries. It is very dangerous. It invites trouble, just as a vigorous, engaged posture toward the world discourages it.

    I would like to see the next U.S. president view nuclear weapons more as Presidents Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Nixon, and Reagan seemed to view them--as something whose use was not unthinkable. In particular, I would like to see, first, an occasional carefully veiled reference to these weapons in a presidential speech, just enough to plant a seed of doubt in the minds of other national leaders about what was meant by it. And I would also like to see the U.S. nuclear arsenal exercised more often and more openly, rather than being allowed to stagnate and lapse into obsolescence. We should develop new designs, and we should go back to staging at least partial underground tests, rather than just mocking up the explosions on computers. We should also keep up ballistic missile tests, just to demonstrate their capabilities in a way the whole world can see.
    Last edited by matchlight; 06-07-15 at 03:38 PM.

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    Re: President Vladimir Putin tells West not to fear Russia

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    And my point was that they only "sought peace" to buy time for their real goal, which is to continue and bring as much of the former Soviet Union back under their influence as possible, not because they actually wanted peace. It was a strategic means to and end, not the end itself, hence it has zero value in comparison.
    Silly me, I thought everybody liked peace...

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