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Thread: Toddler dies in hot car as mom teaches inside school

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    Re: Toddler dies in hot car as mom teaches inside school

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Nota - you aren't seriously trying to draw a comparison between a child dying of natural causes and a child who died due to its parent's actions?
    No, of course not. I was stating a fact, the fact that however a child dies, others are too eager to pass judgment. Thatís what I said, and thatís what I meant.

    You surely donít think that parents who lose children to disease or to suicide arenít judged for what they did or did not do. They are even judged for the funerals they plan or whether they dispose of the childís belongings or choose to keep them. Or whether they cry at all or too much or for too long.

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    Re: Toddler dies in hot car as mom teaches inside school

    Wow, this is absolutely bizarre to me. I can't even fathom driving to work, with my kid, and then going in to work and forgetting that they were in the car! Let alone working for hours and not remembering. How does a person like that even function?

    You're telling me, besides forgetting that the child is in the car, it never even crosses their mind all day that they have a child and don't know where the child is???

    There is something terribly wrong here, and it's not forgetfulness.
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    Re: Toddler dies in hot car as mom teaches inside school

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    No, of course not. I was stating a fact, the fact that however a child dies, others are too eager to pass judgment. Thatís what I said, and thatís what I meant.

    You surely donít think that parents who lose children to disease or to suicide arenít judged for what they did or did not do. They are even judged for the funerals they plan or whether they dispose of the childís belongings or choose to keep them. Or whether they cry at all or too much or for too long.
    Who would pass judgment on a parent whose child died of natural causes? Anyone who dared do that around me watching 2 of my friends bury their children - one because of leukemia, and one because of meningitis - would get a much deserved punch in the face for criticizing my friends.

    What my friends who lost their children went through makes me cry while I'm typing this. They did everything they could to keep their children alive, every minute of their days for months and years on end. To compare them to some stupid moron who "forgot" about her child's existence for 8 hours is insulting.
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    Re: Toddler dies in hot car as mom teaches inside school

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Who would pass judgment on a parent whose child died of natural causes? Anyone who dared do that around me watching 2 of my friends bury their children - one because of leukemia, and one because of meningitis - would get a much deserved punch in the face for criticizing my friends.

    What my friends who lost their children went through makes me cry while I'm typing this. They did everything they could to keep their children alive, every minute of their days for months and years on end. To compare them to some stupid moron who "forgot" about her child's existence for 8 hours is insulting.
    Your punching somebodyís face wouldnít erase the pain of the criticism. But I invite you sometime to attend a Compassionate Friends meeting and just sit and listen. What you wonít hear is anybody sitting in judgment of any bereaved parent, particularly the ďstupid moronĒ ones. People who have experienced the loss of a child themselves are probably the most appalled and also perhaps the most empathetic toward these people and their unimaginable guilt, pain, and suffering.

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    Re: Toddler dies in hot car as mom teaches inside school

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    Your punching somebody’s face wouldn’t erase the pain of the criticism. But I invite you sometime to attend a Compassionate Friends meeting and just sit and listen. What you won’t hear is anybody sitting in judgment of any bereaved parent, particularly the “stupid moron” ones. People who have experienced the loss of a child themselves are probably the most appalled and also perhaps the most empathetic toward these people and their unimaginable guilt, pain, and suffering.
    No, we had a party on Saturday for the Belmont and one of the couples is the one who lost their 9 year old to leukemia. I talked to the wife and she is anything but empathetic to that woman. In fact, it's the opposite. She's disgusted and appalled.

    And if there are groups that sit around patting the backs of people whose irresponsible actions resulted in the deaths of their innocent children, I'll pass. If I was ever ignorant enough to let one of my kids roast to death in a car because I "forgot" he was in there, I'd kill myself because I wouldn't be able to live with myself. I wouldn't expect people who walked to their ends of the earth to save their children to be empathetic to me.
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    Re: Toddler dies in hot car as mom teaches inside school

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    No there would not need to be thousands upon thousands of children dying each year in this way for the psychologist's "opinion" to be considered correct. People think differently. That is a fact. Their brains are not wired the same way. And our memories operate in strange ways sometimes, picking up on subconscious cues to remind us of things, rather than sending reliable alerts like a cell phone would. Without many of the right cues getting to that individual, people can forget even important things, like their children.
    You aren't following the conversation. JANFU used this guys "expert knowledge" to claim that forgetting your child to die in a car is common because of the way the brain works. The evidence for this being true would be tones of dead children. No way around it because otherwise the kids are not being forgotten. Simple.

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    Re: Toddler dies in hot car as mom teaches inside school

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    It scares the living **** out of me to see so many people in this thread justifying this and chalking it up to brain wiring and memory and forgetfulness. Un****ingbelievable.
    I know. WTF?

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    Re: Toddler dies in hot car as mom teaches inside school

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Scatterbrained? What a load of crap. Lousy parents is more like it.

    Great parents put their children above all else and NEVER forget them in a car unattended...for ANY length of time. My mother never left me in a car (or any of my siblings). I lived with a woman who had children and she would never forget her children, no matter how busy she was. Never. Heck, I never forgot about them and they were not even my children.

    The only people who forget about their children left unattended in a car are lousy parents...period.

    And level of 'busyness' is no excuse whatsoever. Your children - especially if they are pre-school - should always be the most important thing in your lives and nothing should be able to make you 'scatterbrained' about them. Not your job, your friends, your health...nothing.
    Actually, if you disrupt standard routine, it's quite easy for the brain to work on automatic and this leads to many times people having forgotten their kids in cars. It's not "lousy parents" as much as it is how the brain allocates resources.

    Often times in the cases of kids left in cars, the common thread has been that their normal routine patterns had been disrupted.
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    Re: Toddler dies in hot car as mom teaches inside school

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Dude, you are so far off it is astounding. My point is that Appeal to Authority is illogical and fallacious and secondly that being an "expert" does not make a person correct... that was the point of the court analogy. The "expert" lawyers lost to a non-expert non-lawyer (me).
    Nope- You won based upon researching the law, case law and past precedents, that is what I am assuming. Happy for ya.
    Far off the mark, nope.

    Your reasoning is to say that the lawyers would have won simply because they had degrees in law and I do not and you are not taking into account factors such as my intelligence, understanding of such topics, research abilites, etc. and applying that here saying that this psychologist is correct and I am wrong simply because he has a degree in psychology. That is ridiculous and faulty reasoning.
    No, you have not shown any studies to counter the point. You are using yourself, your experience to bolster your claim.

    The evidence you provided discusses how the brain works to easily allow "forgetting your child". I am extrapolating nothing. He essetially said it is easy to do. Obviously not as evidenced by the fact that kids are not dying in mass.
    Nope again, he did not state that.
    He stated due to certain clear circumstances it can happen. Reason why we do not have mass deaths from incidents such as this, they meet clearly defined circumstances, with defined parameters. You clearly missed that. And jump to the mass deaths should be occurring. Read it again.

    This is what he stated
    Fatal Distraction: Forgetting a Child in the Backseat of a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? - The Washington Post
    What heís found is that under some circumstances, the most sophisticated part of our thought-processing center can be held hostage to a competing memory system, a primitive portion of the brain that is -- by a design as old as the dinosaurís -- inattentive, pigheaded, nonanalytical, stupid.
    Fatal Distraction: Forgetting a Child in the Backseat of a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? - The Washington Post

    ďThe quality of prior parental care seems to be irrelevant,Ē he said. ďThe important factors that keep showing up involve a combination of stress, emotion, lack of sleep and change in routine, where the basal ganglia is trying to do what itís supposed to do, and the conscious mind is too weakened to resist. What happens is that the memory circuits in a vulnerable hippocampus literally get overwritten, like with a computer program. Unless the memory circuit is rebooted -- such as if the child cries, or, you know, if the wife mentions the child in the back -- it can entirely disappear.Ē
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I could care less what his qualifications are... a parent in a dead sleep will wake at the slightest odd sound from a baby. Parents brains are wired for their baby.

    Again, that psychobabble bull**** excuse for forgetting a child is pathetic...
    You know this how. Your opinion, right, your personal experience, right.
    Lastly- the court analogy does not equate to how a brain operates.
    Not even close enough to get a ceegar.
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    The damage to the black community from all this will be devastating.
    Not only on public perception and reputation, but cops simply won't want to police these neighborhoods anymore.
    The shooter was later found to be white.

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    Re: Toddler dies in hot car as mom teaches inside school

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    I guess it is beyond my comprehension that a parent could completely forget about their child strapped in a car seat for 9 hours. I can't wrap my head around someone being so pre-occupied with everything else and not with what is most important. As parents when we have our children in the car with us, we tend to be even more cautious/defensive drivers behind the wheel to insure their safety. This mother's absentmindedness had grave consequences which she will pay for the rest of her life in more ways than one
    In their mind, their child is almost certainly where they are every day, in day care, with the other parent, wherever they normally would be because there is no "clue" that there is a difference. In fact, that is how at least some of the people do remember, they get that "clue" that tells them that they made the terrible mistake of forgetting their child. We don't think about our kids on a regular basis is we normally trust that they are somewhere safe.

    And the fact that this mother will live with this every day, this horrible mistake, is why I don't feel that she or those like her, who simply forget, should face criminal charges. That is their punishment, and it is far worse than going to prison or having a criminal record (now, this doesn't go for those who did it on purpose, either leaving their child in the car on purpose or actually trying to kill the child this way, as is suspected the one father was). Some of these parents try to kill themselves, face major depression, relationship problems, and just so many things because of their guilt.
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