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Thread: Toddler dies in hot car as mom teaches inside school

  1. #101
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    Re: Toddler dies in hot car as mom teaches inside school

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Really upset.
    Thousands dying, your opinion is taking an experts knowledge of the brain and extrapolating that to make an invalid point.
    My thing here. Not sure what the heck that is?
    You equate your 2 times in court where you defended yourself in court to be equivalent to an experts opinion. Who gives a rats ass about your court experience?
    You can guess where I lay my money.
    Dude, you are so far off it is astounding. My point is that Appeal to Authority is illogical and fallacious and secondly that being an "expert" does not make a person correct... that was the point of the court analogy. The "expert" lawyers lost to a non-expert non-lawyer (me). Your reasoning is to say that the lawyers would have won simply because they had degrees in law and I do not and you are not taking into account factors such as my intelligence, understanding of such topics, research abilites, etc. and applying that here saying that this psychologist is correct and I am wrong simply because he has a degree in psychology. That is ridiculous and faulty reasoning.

    The evidence you provided discusses how the brain works to easily allow "forgetting your child". I am extrapolating nothing. He essetially said it is easy to do. Obviously not as evidenced by the fact that kids are not dying in mass.
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  2. #102
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    Re: Toddler dies in hot car as mom teaches inside school

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    No offense to any parent that has forgotten their child somewhere but if you have you have ****ing problems... how one could forget they have their child in the car is absolutely idiotic.
    Wow, thanks for that brilliant insight. Do you think parents whose children have died in hot cars need to be told that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    That psychobabble bull**** excuse for forgetting a child is pathetic...
    No one has presented any "excuse."

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    That is ridiculous... You are probably driving to day care or a sitters house instead of work, different route. You are probably leaving at a different time as well... if it is not your normal drive into work then you remember why because it is an abnormal morning commute... not routine.
    You think these parents are intending to kill their children?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Because it means that it was not some normal morning as you made it sound where it is easy to just slip into a normal routine...
    Someone asked how a person could forget their child is in the car. I explained how. The child falls asleep, it is rear-facing (not in view of the driver), the parent has made the drive in to work thousands of times, and the parent forgets.

    For Christ's sake people, no one is saying this is an okay thing. We all agree how horrifyingly bad it is. One asks "how could a parent possibly forget" and then someone provides an answer and you say "bull****!" What is it you want to hear? Just enjoy berating parents who will never forgive themselves or stop mourning? Does that serve some sort of purpose for you?

    Have you ever forgotten something? How? How did you actually go about forgetting? What was the process that was involved in forgetting? There is no answer to this question. One just forgets. In the case of this topic, the consequence is the worst imaginable.

    Anything left to say?

  3. #103
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    Re: Toddler dies in hot car as mom teaches inside school

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Wow, thanks for that brilliant insight.
    Just simple common sense... nothing brilliant abo... oh, I get it. You are being a jerk.

    Do you think parents whose children have died in hot cars need to be told that?
    That message is not intended for parents that left their child to die in a car... I thought that was pretty obvious.

    No one has presented any "excuse."
    JANFU did in this post: http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1064696516

    You think these parents are intending to kill their children?
    Did I seem to imply that somewhere? No, I did not.

    Someone asked how a person could forget their child is in the car. I explained how. The child falls asleep, it is rear-facing (not in view of the driver), the parent has made the drive in to work thousands of times, and the parent forgets.
    Yeah, I understand that you are answering a question. Got it.

    I made a counter point to your scenario but you declined to debate that instead opting this 3rd grade explanation of how a conversation works. Thank you but no I won't trade my apple for your brussel sprouts either.

    For Christ's sake people, no one is saying this is an okay thing. We all agree how horrifyingly bad it is. One asks "how could a parent possibly forget" and then someone provides an answer and you say "bull****!" What is it you want to hear? Just enjoy berating parents who will never forgive themselves or stop mourning? Does that serve some sort of purpose for you?
    FOR CHIST'S SAKE DUDE... Nobody is implyin that anybody is saying that it is OK.

    Have you ever forgotten something? How? How did you actually go about forgetting? What was the process that was involved in forgetting? There is no answer to this question. One just forgets. In the case of this topic, the consequence is the worst imaginable.
    Forgetting to put the cap back on the toothpaste and forgetting your child that dies in a sweltering car is hardly analogous... either is forgetting to put money in the bank to pay a bill or office reports or picking somebody up from the airport or any other normal thing we might forget.

    Anything left to say?
    Yes.
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  4. #104
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    Re: Toddler dies in hot car as mom teaches inside school

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    I could care less what his qualifications are... a parent in a dead sleep will wake at the slightest odd sound from a baby. Parents brains are wired for their baby.

    Again, that psychobabble bull**** excuse for forgetting a child is pathetic...
    Most parents, not all. And that is very different than being in a car. That involves our unconscious mind, which is much more sensitive to our children than our conscious mind and memory.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  5. #105
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    Re: Toddler dies in hot car as mom teaches inside school

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Have you ever had to get a child ready for day care? It requires getting them up before maybe they are not ready to wake up. They need to be fed breakfast which isn't exactly an easy feat either because if they are cranking no choices will suffice. Then they need to be dressed. Another feat. They fight you on what you want to dress them in. The backpack needs to be packed with all the essentials whether it be gym day or art day. Their blankie for nap time needs to be cleaned regulary and that needs packed also. They are encouraged to bring something to share with others which can take a good amount of time to choose. Then there is the shoe you can not find because they have taken off God knows where so you have a scavenger hunt to locate the needed shoe. Teeth brushed, face washed, hair combed.... By the time you get through all of that BEFORE you strap them into their car seat, it would take someone out to lunch, not to remember their child was in the backseat needing dropped off at day care.
    Maybe the parent dropping the child off didn't get the child ready. I've woken up right before walking my children to school, with them being completely dressed, fed, and ready because we have my brother as a nanny.

    And it isn't all that hard to forget you've just done something, even strapped a child into the car seat, especially if the seat is in the car empty at other times (which is something that parents shouldn't do, but might anyway to save time) or not in a position where you can see it any time you look in the back.
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  6. #106
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    Re: Toddler dies in hot car as mom teaches inside school

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    Do you have a valid point? Refuse to learn seems to be your thing here.

    Wrong about the Judge and wrong that his opinion is not an opinion...

    His opinion is also his opinion because if it were a fact the evidence would be that thousands upon thousands of children a year would be dying in cars and that is not happening. As such, his opinion is psychobabble masquerading as expert. In the end if you want to accept his opinion as a fact that is fine with me but it certainly does not come close to proving a valid argument and yes, when certain lines of questioning occur Judges do in fact ask, if the lawyer has not made it clear, what the witnesses qualifications and expertise are.
    No there would not need to be thousands upon thousands of children dying each year in this way for the psychologist's "opinion" to be considered correct. People think differently. That is a fact. Their brains are not wired the same way. And our memories operate in strange ways sometimes, picking up on subconscious cues to remind us of things, rather than sending reliable alerts like a cell phone would. Without many of the right cues getting to that individual, people can forget even important things, like their children.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  7. #107
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    Re: Toddler dies in hot car as mom teaches inside school

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Maybe the parent dropping the child off didn't get the child ready. I've woken up right before walking my children to school, with them being completely dressed, fed, and ready because we have my brother as a nanny.

    And it isn't all that hard to forget you've just done something, even strapped a child into the car seat, especially if the seat is in the car empty at other times (which is something that parents shouldn't do, but might anyway to save time) or not in a position where you can see it any time you look in the back.
    I guess it is beyond my comprehension that a parent could completely forget about their child strapped in a car seat for 9 hours. I can't wrap my head around someone being so pre-occupied with everything else and not with what is most important. As parents when we have our children in the car with us, we tend to be even more cautious/defensive drivers behind the wheel to insure their safety. This mother's absentmindedness had grave consequences which she will pay for the rest of her life in more ways than one
    Last edited by vesper; 06-08-15 at 07:01 AM.

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    Re: Toddler dies in hot car as mom teaches inside school

    Yes, she will. Every day, and she will have to find a way, somehow, to go on. Living with the loss of a child is almost unbearable, but to live with the knowledge that your carelessness caused this is unimaginable suffering.

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    Re: Toddler dies in hot car as mom teaches inside school

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    That's true; he or she is just as dead.

    And the child's parents will suffer for the rest of their lives. How do you live every day of the rest of your life with the knowledge that you were responsible for the death of your child?

    Earlier in the thread, I posted a link to a very thoughtful Washington Post article that details a few cases and will provide it again despite my cynical expectation that it won't be read: Fatal Distraction: Forgetting a Child in the Backseat of a Car Is a Horrifying Mistake. Is It a Crime? - The Washington Post

    Most people, thank heavens, have no first-hand knowledge of living with the death of a child. This is such a "but for the grace of God" blessing. Whether that child died of natural causes or by his own hand or by misadventure, people are so eager to pass judgment. I'm glad that juries aren't so eager to punish.
    Nota - you aren't seriously trying to draw a comparison between a child dying of natural causes and a child who died due to its parent's actions?
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Toddler dies in hot car as mom teaches inside school

    It scares the living **** out of me to see so many people in this thread justifying this and chalking it up to brain wiring and memory and forgetfulness. Un****ingbelievable.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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