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Thread: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

  1. #51
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgyva View Post
    The ceo isn't asking for, or taking anything that he/she hasn't earned...

    So it was OK that the CEO of GM was making millions of dollars a year, and getting raises year after year, while GM was loosing billions? The guy was paid $100 million dollars in 12 years, had 9 years of losses out of those 12 and ran the company into bankruptcy.

    You obviously don't understand this, but wages aren't set by how hard one works, or how productive they are, but by negotiating power. CEOs use every drop of negotiating power that they can gather, I don't see why minimum wage workers shouldn't also utilize every drop of negotiating power that they have, even if that includes protesting for higher wages or unionizing.
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    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  2. #52
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    What someone else makes doesn't effect you. I got it.

    Doesn't matter if the CEO of your company pays himself a zillion dollars.

    Doesn't matter how high we make minimum wage either, after all minimum wage workers are paid out of the same income pool that CEO's are.
    Geeeeezus again with the simple rhetoric. A short order cook at McDonalds is doing a minimum wage job. Daves Burger shop has to pay his employees too. When you use simple rhetoric and build wage policy, guess what you just did to Daves Burgers.

  3. #53
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Μολὼν λαβέ View Post
    So you vote on lies, knowing they're lies? Does it make you "feel better?"
    i don't vote for dems either. It's a matter of degree of foolishness. Unless you're as rich as mitt romney, you've no plausible reason to vote for him

  4. #54
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgyva View Post
    The ceo isn't asking for, or taking anything that he/she hasn't earned

    There is that word.....earned
    LOL yeah right, the CEO earned 6000 times what the minions in his work force earned, all while driving his company down the toilet. You have a funny definition of earned.

    The example i gave above is fitting here. The dominoes pizza stock dropped 25% while dave brandon was CEO, since he left going up tenfold. Now i suppose after alienating everyone at his next gig, sending 3 am emails telling customers "quit drinking and go to bed" "find a new wife" "find another place to shop" you believe he EARNED his new $15 million a year as toys r us exec?

    Or how about those wall street execs who destroyed the entire financial system and came begging uncle sam for a bailout? Yeah, they sure earned those huge bonuses. Cat's out of the bag. Our economy is a sham

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    So it was OK that the CEO of GM was making millions of dollars a year, and getting raises year after year, while GM was loosing billions? The guy was paid $100 million dollars in 12 years, had 9 years of losses out of those 12 and ran the company into bankruptcy.

    You obviously don't understand this, but wages aren't set by how hard one works, or how productive they are, but by negotiating power. CEOs use every drop of negotiating power that they can gather, I don't see why minimum wage workers shouldn't also utilize every drop of negotiating power that they have, even if that includes protesting for higher wages or unionizing.
    My question is how they get any negotiating power to begin with. A guy who hasn't been in business school in 30 years and is universally reviled by everyone he ever came across, and has a penchant for driving his company to extinction STILL has negotiating power to land a $15 million/year salary?! WTF is that

    But it's like how ****ty NFL coaches keep landing football gigs. It's the old boys' club i figure. Once you're in, you can do no wrong (or never too much wrong)

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    So it was OK that the CEO of GM was making millions of dollars a year, and getting raises year after year, while GM was loosing billions? The guy was paid $100 million dollars in 12 years, had 9 years of losses out of those 12 and ran the company into bankruptcy.

    You obviously don't understand this, but wages aren't set by how hard one works, or how productive they are, but by negotiating power. CEOs use every drop of negotiating power that they can gather, I don't see why minimum wage workers shouldn't also utilize every drop of negotiating power that they have, even if that includes protesting for higher wages or unionizing.
    you know, If I were a shareholder of GM, I'd be pissed. but since I am not, its not my business to worry about. and its certainly not something other non-shareholders should worry about
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I don't think that's true. We already have a production (manufacturing) credit and Obama proposed to expand it and double it for certain industries, and I really don't think democrats as a group would be against tax breaks to move into the inner cities, where they have HUGE voter support.
    I have not heard any suggestions from 2016 candidates on this. To be fair, neither side has put any real proposals on the table
    It's true NAFTA was Clinton and Obama strongly supports TPP, but that's true of probably anyone who can get elected POTUS. The Democratic base isn't happy about it, and the democratic wing of the democratic party is against the trade deals.



    A little off topic, but I've changed my views on "charter schools." I had thought the charter schools would be like the non-profit high school I went to. Instead, what we seem to be getting are corporate, for profit schools that from what I can see exist mainly to capture and privatize what has been many $billions in public spending. And I haven't seen any evidence that they do a better job, and they appear to at least frequently be dogged with lack of transparency and obvious conflicts of interests, with tons of the spending getting siphoned off into related companies for various services, management and the like and the public unable to see exactly where there money is going. I know this varies by school district so generalities are difficult, but the trends I've seen aren't good.

    So as is I don't support expanding charter schools or funding them with taxpayer money. Bottom line is if corporations could make money with private schools, not funded with deals they can buy with captured legislators, they'd have been funding them all over the country long ago. It's only happening now that they can get public money, so I'm very worried this is just another example of public costs, privatized profits, with little if any benefit for students.
    I agree that it would be great to have these schools non-profit. I think many are. Also agree that there should be transparency. That being said, I was able to send my son to a private high school. Very expensive, but a great education and certainly helped to get into a great University. I would like more students to have that opportunity even if their parents can't pick that type of tab.


    I agree with the general ideas, but the specifics are very hard to implement. The deductions for plants overseas is part of income in those countries, not here, and I guess we could tax that income more heavily than we do now, but already the firms keep the profits offshore to avoid the U.S. tax. My preference is strongly to subsidize/incentivize domestic production. I'm generally not a big "tax cuts for the plutocrats will save us" crowd, but I'd be OK with far lower marginal tax rates on corporations in the U.S. accompanied with higher taxes on distributions to shareholders. Or not. Other countries heavily subsidize their domestic firms - I'm fine if we do the same however we can do it. Yes, perhaps it's going to mostly accrue to shareholders, but it's worth a try IMO. So little is actually collected from the corporate income tax that we could halve it and not do all that much damage to collections, especially with just a small increase in taxes on corporate distributions to shareholders.
    Hard to work out how to do this. First we would have to start with a more reasonable corporate tax rate. So lets say that the rate is 20% while the rest of the world is 15%. Taxes paid to another nation are tax credits to the corporation here. So the net tax is 5%, something companies would probably pay to get their money back home to use for dividends and buybacks or buy or other accretive investments here rather than overseas. If we had something like that and then added back any depreciation deduction taken on overseas plant and equipment it might entice some to build more here. Just an example.

  8. #58
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Wonderful. Read the article. Now...how does Bill Gates making 10 Billion a year prevent you from becoming successful? How does the fact that the top 1% are REALLY REALLY REALLY wealthy prevent you from becoming successful? How do you reconcile the fact that there have MILLIONS of NEW MILLIONAIRESaround the globe over the last several years (an average of 1000 per day)with your constant bemoaning the success and largess of the 1%? '
    Then you didn't read it very carefully, because it was spelled out.

    Some people look at income inequality and shrug their shoulders. So what if this person gains and that person loses? What matters, they argue, is not how the pie is divided but the size of the pie. That argument is fundamentally wrong. An economy in which most citizens are doing worse year after year—an economy like America’s—is not likely to do well over the long haul. There are several reasons for this.

    First, growing inequality is the flip side of something else: shrinking opportunity. Whenever we diminish equality of opportunity, it means that we are not using some of our most valuable assets—our people—in the most productive way possible. Second, many of the distortions that lead to inequality—such as those associated with monopoly power and preferential tax treatment for special interests—undermine the efficiency of the economy. This new inequality goes on to create new distortions, undermining efficiency even further. To give just one example, far too many of our most talented young people, seeing the astronomical rewards, have gone into finance rather than into fields that would lead to a more productive and healthy economy.

    Third, and perhaps most important, a modern economy requires “collective action”—it needs government to invest in infrastructure, education, and technology. The United States and the world have benefited greatly from government-sponsored research that led to the Internet, to advances in public health, and so on. But America has long suffered from an under-investment in infrastructure (look at the condition of our highways and bridges, our railroads and airports), in basic research, and in education at all levels. Further cutbacks in these areas lie ahead.
    As for new millionaires, mobility in the U.S. Is low. What you call a new millionaire, is someone who last year made $975,000 crossing the million line. I'll look for the data on this.
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

  9. #59
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric7216 View Post
    Well, Thomas Paine in Common Sense certainly complained about the evils of inherited wealth and power but I don't recall any founders who were concerned about income inequality.
    "Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1785. ME 19:18, Papers 8:682

    The Framers, like most people, understood the connection between income inequality and wealth inequality. After all, once doesn't become wealthier than everyone else by having the same income as everyone else.
    Last edited by sangha; 06-06-15 at 08:10 AM.
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    They just disagree on how to fix it. In European social democracies, the GDP per capita is less than the US GDP per capita....that's a very easy example of welfare effectiveness.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

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