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Thread: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

  1. #31
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    When you take no responsibility for yourself, indiscriminately have kids with whoever, don't raise them properly, and make no effort to improve yourself or your kids through example and work ethic, then you're going to end up on the wrong end of the economic scale.

    That unfortunately describes a growing percentage of this country as liberalism continues to rot the core values of this nation.

    Honestly, it's not that difficult to do pretty well in America. It just isn't.
    Disposable income in the United States is more unequally distributed than in most other advanced countries. Do Europeans have a better work ethic, make more effort to improve themselves, or take more responsibility? Um, no.

    The source of US inequality lies in the unusually low amount of redistribution we do through our tax and transfer system. Figure 1, below, shows Gini coefficients before and after taxes and transfers for a number of advanced economies. The US after-tax-after-transfer Gini is the highest of the group, but its pre-tax-pre-transfer Gini -- the inequality of market income -- isn’t all that special. What this figure suggests, then, is that it’s all about redistribution rather than about market inequality -- not that America has become a bunch of lazy good-for-nothings, except for the rich -- who do all the heavy lifting.



    The lazy-American view is further undermined by the fact that Americans typically retire later than their European counterparts and work harder.
    America's Productivity Climbs But Wages Stagnate

    Conservative and liberal economists agree on many of the forces that have driven the wage share down. Corporate America’s push to outsource jobs — whether call-center jobs to India or factory jobs to China — has fattened corporate earnings, while holding down wages at home. New technologies have raised productivity and profits, while enabling companies to shed workers and slice payroll. Computers have replaced workers who tabulated numbers; robots have pushed aside many factory workers.

    “Some people think it’s a law that when productivity goes up, everybody benefits,” says Erik Brynjolfsson, an economics professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. “There is no economic law that says technological progress has to benefit everybody or even most people. It’s possible that productivity can go up and the economic pie gets bigger, but the majority of people don’t share in that gain.”

    From 1973 to 2011, worker productivity grew 80 percent, while median hourly compensation, after inflation, grew by just one-eighth that amount
    , according to the Economic Policy Institute, a liberal research group. And since 2000, productivity has risen 23 percent while real hourly pay has essentially stagnated.
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

  2. #32
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by avery45 View Post
    Why should I care about the gap?
    If you a top1%er, the income gap is in your favor. But there is a 99% chance that you aren't a 1%er.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  3. #33
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by avery45 View Post
    This is stupid. It's no one else's responsibility to make money for me.
    Is being concerned about someone elses income jealousy? Like it's none of my bizness what anyone else makes because it doesn't effect me?
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  4. #34
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Is being concerned about someone elses income jealousy? Like it's none of my bizness what anyone else makes because it doesn't effect me?
    bingo

    we have a winner

    i dont care if you make 25k, 250k, or 250m a year

    it is none of my business....and if you are making 250m a year....hopefully you are bringing a few others with you into that stratosphere

    this country is all about opportunity......the sky is the limit.....

    we make more millionaires in this country than anywhere else.....period

    my wife and i make a nice living......we also give back

    my boss makes a ton more than i do.....he earns it.....his fed income tax paid in april was in the mid 7 figures

    he gives back too

    the idea is to get as many successful people around as we can....and let others work for them

    that is the capitalist society i know.....and it works
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    When it comes down to it forced wealth redistribution ( theft ) is basically all the left have left as a economic plan for growth.

    Its their solution to a problem they made much worse and if its ever implemented it will backfire on the Middle class in epic proportions.
    A fair and progressive tax system is not theft.
    If my post offends you, I deeply Apple-O-Jize.

  6. #36
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by avery45 View Post
    Why should I care about the gap?
    Are you asking me to convince you to care about the poor?

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    Simply untrue. Government policy can make a difference. Democrats would not allow business friendly solutions to incenting corporations to move manufacturing to the U.S. Lets remember that NAFTA was voted in under Clinton and Obama wants to craft a similar deal with Asian nations. Anything that would provide tax breaks to move into inner cities would be decried as "giveaways" to big business.
    I don't think that's true. We already have a production (manufacturing) credit and Obama proposed to expand it and double it for certain industries, and I really don't think democrats as a group would be against tax breaks to move into the inner cities, where they have HUGE voter support.

    It's true NAFTA was Clinton and Obama strongly supports TPP, but that's true of probably anyone who can get elected POTUS. The Democratic base isn't happy about it, and the democratic wing of the democratic party is against the trade deals.

    Allowing students to pick charter schools so kids can get a better education is ranted about as being anti-union.
    A little off topic, but I've changed my views on "charter schools." I had thought the charter schools would be like the non-profit high school I went to. Instead, what we seem to be getting are corporate, for profit schools that from what I can see exist mainly to capture and privatize what has been many $billions in public spending. And I haven't seen any evidence that they do a better job, and they appear to at least frequently be dogged with lack of transparency and obvious conflicts of interests, with tons of the spending getting siphoned off into related companies for various services, management and the like and the public unable to see exactly where there money is going. I know this varies by school district so generalities are difficult, but the trends I've seen aren't good.

    So as is I don't support expanding charter schools or funding them with taxpayer money. Bottom line is if corporations could make money with private schools, not funded with deals they can buy with captured legislators, they'd have been funding them all over the country long ago. It's only happening now that they can get public money, so I'm very worried this is just another example of public costs, privatized profits, with little if any benefit for students.

    On the Republican side any thought of a higher tax rate on the super wealthy is a non-starter. How about changing the rules on donating away wealth upon death like Buffet will do to bypass the estate tax. Why not have a limit on charitable contributions, so the uber wealthy can't build a fancy gym at a university and have your name on it like Nike did.

    How about limiting deductions for plants and equipment to those built in the U.S.

    So yes there is plenty that can be done but it more fun to accuse the other guy of not caring or being stupid.
    I agree with the general ideas, but the specifics are very hard to implement. The deductions for plants overseas is part of income in those countries, not here, and I guess we could tax that income more heavily than we do now, but already the firms keep the profits offshore to avoid the U.S. tax. My preference is strongly to subsidize/incentivize domestic production. I'm generally not a big "tax cuts for the plutocrats will save us" crowd, but I'd be OK with far lower marginal tax rates on corporations in the U.S. accompanied with higher taxes on distributions to shareholders. Or not. Other countries heavily subsidize their domestic firms - I'm fine if we do the same however we can do it. Yes, perhaps it's going to mostly accrue to shareholders, but it's worth a try IMO. So little is actually collected from the corporate income tax that we could halve it and not do all that much damage to collections, especially with just a small increase in taxes on corporate distributions to shareholders.

  8. #38
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    If you a top1%er, the income gap is in your favor. But there is a 99% chance that you aren't a 1%er.
    And that is STILL irrelevant. If you make 35k and bill gates makes 10 million, then 20 years later you are making 45k and bill gates is making 10 billion it does not matter.

    He didn't steal your pennies and he didn't inhibit your earning potential. All this frothy crap about the disparity is simply economic penis envy. It's NOT YOURS. You CANT HAVE IT. You ARENT ENTITLED TO IT.

  9. #39
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
    Disposable income in the United States is more unequally distributed than in most other advanced countries. Do Europeans have a better work ethic, make more effort to improve themselves, or take more responsibility? Um, no.

    The source of US inequality lies in the unusually low amount of redistribution we do through our tax and transfer system. Figure 1, below, shows Gini coefficients before and after taxes and transfers for a number of advanced economies. The US after-tax-after-transfer Gini is the highest of the group, but its pre-tax-pre-transfer Gini -- the inequality of market income -- isn’t all that special. What this figure suggests, then, is that it’s all about redistribution rather than about market inequality -- not that America has become a bunch of lazy good-for-nothings, except for the rich -- who do all the heavy lifting.



    The lazy-American view is further undermined by the fact that Americans typically retire later than their European counterparts and work harder.
    Blah, blah, blah.

    Turn on your TV and look at Baltimore. Look at south Texas where almost nobody speaks English. Look at rural Alabama where most don't graduate high school. Look EVERYWHERE where so many kids come from broken homes and don't know their dad.

    We have a political party which is built solely on making excuses for people and telling them that none of these actions or decisions are truly their fault. It is a grotesque cannibalism just for political gain.

    And then we want to blame the people who chose not to make these decisions? It's their fault?

    There are motions now declaring it educationally unfair if a child has a parent reading bedtime stories to them at night. Suddenly, that is the vast exception, not the rule.

    This nation is screwed.

  10. #40
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Greece is begging Putin to fix its country for them.

    Greece crisis live: PM tells parliament a debt deal can be done as stocks slide and Athens looks to Moscow - Telegraph

    Do folks really want to go down the redistribution path?

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