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Thread: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

  1. #341
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by avery45 View Post
    Maybe not, but they can make their situation better.
    What can people do to make their situation better?

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Most rich people far more than poor people do, but they spend a smaller percent of their income, thus technically the full statement should be "they have a lower propensity to spend the marginal dollar". The message sent to the poor is that the rich in America have more money than they can even spend - way to rub it in.
    Life isn't just about money, and those who are envious must be damned shallow. That may be why they aren't getting ahead in the world.

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    The point you seem to be missing is that the poor don't have any money to spend more wisely or to invest more wisely. If they had "extra" money, then we wouldn't be calling them poor.
    You don't see the poor in bars, buying dope, taking taxis when the checks arrive? The fact is that todays poor in the democracies are better off than almost anywhere else in the world. Perhaps a few months in Nicaragua would give them some insight to their situation.
    You know why poor people sometimes spend money on tatoos? Because it's the one thing that you can get for a hundred dollars (or less) that you will have for the rest of your life, if a tattoo makes them happy, it's literally the best investment they can make, a lifetime of happyness for less than a paycheck.
    You just made my case.

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    "...[politicians] are increasingly adopting anti-Wall Street rhetoric... [to] appeal to voters’ distrust of the financial sector.

    In recent weeks, [one politician] declared he is "fed up" with Wall Street's antics, [another politician] slammed Goldman Sachs and [yet another politician] derided the banking industry as rife with greed.

    "We have more banks with more concentrated assets in the United States, and the systematic risk is perhaps greater now...." [one politician] told reporters this month.

    The observation from [that politician], .... is not unlike remarks made by from bank basher Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass), with both politicians noting that the largest financial institutions have grown in size since Congress passed Dodd-Frank....

    "I think Americans are fed up — I am — with Wall Street getting treated specially," said [one politician] "There is nothing too big to fail in my opinion, when it comes to big banks, big corporate entities."....

    [another politician] told Bloomberg TV in March that Goldman Sachs "is one of the biggest banks on Wall Street, and my criticism with Washington is they engage in crony capitalism."

    "They give favors to Wall Street and big businesses,” [that politician] said on Bloomberg TV. .....

    [yet another politician] said on NBC's "Meet The Press" in April that "there's too much greed" on Wall Street."

    "I’ll tell you the problem with Wall Street: it is too much about ‘I gotta make money’,” [that politician] said on NBC."


    original article with the names of the politicians
    The Stupids will buy right into this.

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by distraff View Post
    You were probably not here when this started. When I pointed out that the middle class had stagnated and the rich were taking most of the economic growth, some people tried to suggest that the middle class should just work really hard so they can be rich. Now we know that is not a viable solution.
    Hard work isn't enough unless it is smart hard work. That is why education is so important, and not necessarily a much over-rated college education. Just an education to be the best you can possibly in whatever field you've chosen. For those with an entrepreneurial spirit it takes a special dedication and a lot of learning.

  6. #346
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Nope. There is no such thing as "fair" in economics. "Fair" is a topic for philosophy. The only thing that matter in economics is having a system that maximizes productivity.



    Why? The mean average amount of value created by the America workers is around $130k. Placing an income tax on any income below that amount is counter productive to any real need for income redistribution (assuming that such need even exists). For that matter, I don't see why we would want to tax people who make over the mean average but less than the amount of value which can be reasonably created by a human being. I would propose a standard per income earner tax deduction of $400k (about where our top tax rate starts now), and as low of a tax as possible on any income above that amount.



    I totally agree. That's part of the reason that I suggest we exempt most people and most income from income tax.



    I agree. SS/medicare should be paid out of the general fund, and benefits shouldn't be linked to ones income.
    An income tax system where most (90%?) pay no federal income taxes at all would create a nearly infinite demand for more government - after all, it would mean "free" government provided stuff/services for the vast majority of voters. A system with nearly universal representation without taxation is bound to result in a huge increase in the cost of government with little (or no) increase in productivity.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  7. #347
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Most rich people far more than poor people do, but they spend a smaller percent of their income, thus technically the full statement should be "they have a lower propensity to spend the marginal dollar".

    The message sent to the poor is that the rich in America have more money than they can even spend - way to rub it in.
    Is it your desire to have most (any?) personal income, in excess of that used for personal consumption, placed under the control of the federal government? I find that the poor rarely hire me (or anyone else) while they still consume at least much as they produce - there are few businesses (or governments) that can sustain themselves serving mainly poor folks. Representation without taxation is just as bad as the reverse when it comes to creating a bigger, more powerful and more expensive government. Having a relationship between your personal cost of government and your desire for more of it is important in a democracy (democratic republic?).
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  8. #348
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Life isn't just about money, and those who are envious must be damned shallow. That may be why they aren't getting ahead in the world.
    I have no idea what envy has to do with someones propensity to spend the marginal dollar being based at least in part on their income and wealth level. Sounds like you are attempting to divert the conversation.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  9. #349
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    You don't see the poor in bars, buying dope, taking taxis when the checks arrive? The fact is that todays poor in the democracies are better off than almost anywhere else in the world. Perhaps a few months in Nicaragua would give them some insight to their situation.
    You just made my case.
    I have no clue what "case" you are attempting to make.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  10. #350
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    An income tax system where most (90%?) pay no federal income taxes at all would create a nearly infinite demand for more government - after all, it would mean "free" government provided stuff/services for the vast majority of voters. A system with nearly universal representation without taxation is bound to result in a huge increase in the cost of government with little (or no) increase in productivity.
    You forget that for the majority of the existence of this country, we had no federal income taxes. Now use some logic here, now that we have income taxes, is our government smaller than it was when we had no income taxes?

    History has proven your theory to be incorrect. But nice try, your argument would fool a lot of weaker minded folks who don't know anything about history, or logic.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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