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Thread: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    "The wealthy already pay a larger proportion of taxes than the rest of society. Of course you can tax them higher, in which case they may just go elsewhere, or you can cut expenses and waste in government in order that the wealth can be spread around more eqally.

    The thing is that people often vote for larger government thinking others will pay for it, or the government is some benevolent group that can give them others people money without consequences. Then they wonder why businesses move offshore, curtail investment, or go to a more business friendly environment.
    Obama already cut a large number of government jobs so you can't play that old card.

    The reality is that we need laws that benefit companies that do business here in the United States and eliminate tax credits for businesses that outsource. "Business friendly environment" is just a nice way of saying "Corporate Welfare"....which is often the GOP's answer to everything. The whole rhetoric of class warfare is nothing more than a way for the Republicans to push their failed "trickle down economics" theory that never works. What is it about the GOP that they keep trying the same failed things over and over and expect different results the next time around?

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Obama already cut a large number of government jobs so you can't play that old card.

    The reality is that we need laws that benefit companies that do business here in the United States and eliminate tax credits for businesses that outsource. "Business friendly environment" is just a nice way of saying "Corporate Welfare"....which is often the GOP's answer to everything. The whole rhetoric of class warfare is nothing more than a way for the Republicans to push their failed "trickle down economics" theory that never works. What is it about the GOP that they keep trying the same failed things over and over and expect different results the next time around?
    Not enough bureaucracies were cut and companies are still leaving or not investing..

    If you think the problem has been solved then there is little left to say.

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Why is it with people such as yourself that when tax rates are changed to favor the wealthy it is ok with you and even encouraged. When tax rates are changed to favor the middle/working class....its "wealth redistribution" and "theft"? Seriously.....I want to know.
    People " such as myself " aren't naive enough to think for one second that tax increases on " the Rich " benefits the Middle class.

    Why do people " such as yourself " fall prey to these simpleton divisive narratives that are based on envy ?

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    If I may say so you really should read the Wiki biography link I provided so you can see that he is largely a self made man who has worked hard, created thousands of jobs, helped the poor and raised a wonderful family. He deserves whatever success he owns.
    Goodness, he was given HUGE advantages as an accident of his birth. And I explicitly gave him credit for his accomplishments. That doesn't mean it would have been as easy for a black kid born to a single mother in NYC in the Bronx, or a white kid born in Appalachia to a tobacco farmer. If you think it would have been, you need to put down the crack pipe, or hold off on that second bottle of vodka this early in the day.

    A tougher time perhaps, but the number of self made people, like Carly Fiorina for example, shows that success from a small start can still be had. There are still thousands of opportunities around and some people can see them while others can't. That's where the real difference lies.
    I never argued that it isn't possible - of course it is. I see those successes all the time. But pointing out the one in 10,000 case isn't making any kind of point except that the system isn't ENTIRELY broken.

    A sound economy produces a large, stable middle class - decent jobs to ordinary people with ordinary skills who do what is asked, work hard, take care of their family. We should all share in income growth, rising standards of living, etc. The harder you work, the more you make is still a key function, but the distribution of income really isn't IMO sustainable right now. I don't think the public will put up with it for much longer if the trends don't at least halt and begin to reverse.


    We'll never know but we do that that was the case with Dr.Ben Carson, another Presidential candidate. It's not up to the government to make people successful, it's up to the individual. Getting there is no secret to those who have made it but those who haven't made think there is some mystery involved, some trick that they don't quite understand. But there is no trick. Work hard, work smart, plan ahead, and watch for opportunities. Do that and success is more likely.
    Goodness, the point is to set the rules of the game so that success is more than POSSIBLE for the most extraordinary individuals born in poverty. The ideal (not achievable obviously) is to establish the rules so that kids have the same OPPORTUNITY. They don't now - income mobility is decreasing, not increasing.

    None of that is guaranteed and we should not be fooled into thinking it will ever be so. We are having to make cultural sacrifices in order to try to maintain these expectations with the assumption that those being introduced to the democracies will carry on with the same work ethic and traditions that our forefathers had. That's a leap of faith and one that has little credibility. We always have to watch for and rely on ourselves and not trust the politicians to guarantee a constant money supply.
    Not looking for guarantees, and there's no evidence our work ethic has diminished.

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    People " such as myself " aren't naive enough to think for one second that tax increases on " the Rich " benefits the Middle class.

    Why do people " such as yourself " fall prey to these simpleton divisive narratives that are based on envy ?

    LOL....based on envy? Hardly. Based on equality and fairness. We should return to the pre-Reagan tax cuts. It was those tax cuts that really ushered in the era of income inequality...its always the same with your type....if it benefits the rich it is fine....if it benefits the working/middle class it is "Income redistribution" "envy"...etc. You are so predictable.

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Goodness, he was given HUGE advantages as an accident of his birth. And I explicitly gave him credit for his accomplishments. That doesn't mean it would have been as easy for a black kid born to a single mother in NYC in the Bronx, or a white kid born in Appalachia to a tobacco farmer. If you think it would have been, you need to put down the crack pipe, or hold off on that second bottle of vodka this early in the day.
    Certainly Romney had an advantage with good parents and upbringing, parents he was very proud of, and who encouraged him th succeed in life and do the right thing. That's what all people with children should be doing.

    What is your complaint here? That farmers in Appalachia shouldn't have children? Or single mothers should be forced to have abortions? How about improving the educational system in order that young people can rise above their circumstance? Instead we see politicians alternative forms of education, like charter schools or school vouchers. It seems it is noot to their political advantage to have an educated populace..
    I never argued that it isn't possible - of course it is. I see those successes all the time. But pointing out the one in 10,000 case isn't making any kind of point except that the system isn't ENTIRELY broken.
    And you have an alternative system in mind where everyone can be successful? What if people aren't all that interested in being successful in the ways you describe but prefer to live a smaller, more laid back lifestyle? Not only is there no guarantee of success in this life but many just aren't to interested in it on any grand level.
    A sound economy produces a large, stable middle class - decent jobs to ordinary people with ordinary skills who do what is asked, work hard, take care of their family. We should all share in income growth, rising standards of living, etc. The harder you work, the more you make is still a key function, but the distribution of income really isn't IMO sustainable right now. I don't think the public will put up with it for much longer if the trends don't at least halt and begin to reverse.
    There is no such thing as 'a stable economy' and it is a pipe-dream to think there is. Circumstances fluctuate and adults have to be prepared for those fluctuations.
    Goodness, the point is to set the rules of the game so that success is more than POSSIBLE for the most extraordinary individuals born in poverty. The ideal (not achievable obviously) is to establish the rules so that kids have the same OPPORTUNITY. They don't now - income mobility is decreasing, not increasing.
    And what is your theory as to the cause of this?
    Not looking for guarantees, and there's no evidence our work ethic has diminished.
    With more Americans getting food stamps, encouraged by the government, there is becoming less reason than ever to work. Naturally, human nature being what it is, many will take advantage of that. Now it's about 50% of Americans receiving some sort of government assistance and that cannot logically last.

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    LOL....based on envy? Hardly. Based on equality and fairness. We should return to the pre-Reagan tax cuts. It was those tax cuts that really ushered in the era of income inequality...its always the same with your type....if it benefits the rich it is fine....if it benefits the working/middle class it is "Income redistribution" "envy"...etc. You are so predictable.
    Sure. Jimmy Carter was doing a great job!!

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Sure. Jimmy Carter was doing a great job!!
    Carter absolutely made some mistakes....but income inequality was not one of them nor was it the result of his policies. Try again.

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    LOL....based on envy? Hardly. Based on equality and fairness. We should return to the pre-Reagan tax cuts. It was those tax cuts that really ushered in the era of income inequality...its always the same with your type....if it benefits the rich it is fine....if it benefits the working/middle class it is "Income redistribution" "envy"...etc. You are so predictable.
    Nope, envy.

    And I wont get into just how foolish it is to make the Government the ultimate arbiter of whats " fair " and equitable.

    This Progresive nonsense only appeals to people who have a child like understanding of how our economy works.

    I'm serious, if I asked my 7 year old cousin how we should help poor people she woukd say take money from the Rich and give it to them

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Nope, envy.

    And I wont get into just how foolish it is to make the Government the ultimate arbiter of whats " fair " and equitable.

    This Progresive nonsense only appeals to people who have a child like understanding of how our economy works.

    I'm serious, if I asked my 7 year old cousin how we should help poor people she woukd say take money from the Rich and give it to them

    LOL.....yeah riiiiiiiight.......Republicans always know how to make an economy work....that's why they keep trying trickle down and leaving the mess for the next guy to clean up. Obviously your 7 year old cousin is smarter than you.

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