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Thread: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgyva View Post
    is that the "norm?" not that i have seen

    but yes, some people do make it to the top through, fame, luck, or other traits.....other than hard work and great skills
    I think the more relevant observation is lots of people have considerable skills and work very hard and do not achieve great success - ahead of their time, bad luck, bad timing, events out of their control, sickness, natural disaster, family tragedies, etc. Many millions more work like dogs and don't have the skills that our current economy rewards, such as most creative or academic skills, teaching, etc.

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgyva View Post
    lots?

    depends on what that means to you

    some? yes

    the paris hiltons, and kardashians of the world fit that bill

    is that the "norm?" not that i have seen

    but yes, some people do make it to the top through, fame, luck, or other traits.....other than hard work and great skills
    Yea, basically anyone who inherits, or is given a position via cronyism or nepotism, or who wins the lottery or who becomes famous overnight due to happenstance, etc.

    For every singer/rock star/author/etc who hit's the big time, there are a thousand others who have worked just as hard and are just as good and talented. Sometimes life is about having just the right face at the right time and place.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Yea, basically anyone who inherits, or is given a position via cronyism or nepotism, or who wins the lottery or who becomes famous overnight due to happenstance, etc.
    A whole lot of union employees then.

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    A whole lot of union employees then.
    So most union employees are rich?

    Just how are we defining rich these days?

    I'm really talking about the Mit Romneys and Bill Gates of the world, - people who's 'rents and buddies hooked them up with million dollar contracts.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    So most union employees are rich?

    Just how are we defining rich these days?
    Well, if we're going to do away with cronyism and nepotism quite a few union employees wouldn't have jobs. The problem with leveling the playing field is all the top and half the middle get lowered in the doing.

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Well, I've got just the cure for them: watch Fox News so they can listen to corporate-funded talking heads tell them that they're engaging in "class warfare" for expressing concern over the growing inequality gap.
    So no one but Fox has any corporate funding? Would you like to bet on that?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country spoke, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    So no one but Fox has any corporate funding? Would you like to bet on that?
    Try again without the straw man?

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by distraff View Post
    What you are attacking is communism. We both don't like communism. I just want moderate income inequality and a proportional amount of economic growth going to the poor and middle class.
    Then try tithing or volunteering. But don't look to the politicians to do what individuals should be doing. They only encourage dependency in order to attract votes.

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I think the more relevant observation is lots of people have considerable skills and work very hard and do not achieve great success - ahead of their time, bad luck, bad timing, events out of their control, sickness, natural disaster, family tragedies, etc. Many millions more work like dogs and don't have the skills that our current economy rewards, such as most creative or academic skills, teaching, etc.
    some people have bad luck....

    no denying that.....

    and they can accept the help out there and pull themselves back up

    and the ones that dont have the skills to get the "better" jobs.....

    whose fault is that? what role did they play in the position they currently hold?

    and more importantly, what are they doing to try and remedy that situation?

    forgive my lack of sympathy for most of these people

    i help those who actually try to help themselves

    for instance.....saw a waitress really do well with a belligerent customer a few weeks back

    wife and I watched the situation play out.....and this kid (she is 17) acted like a pro

    she kept her cool, and after the idiot finally left i waved her over

    she now works for me.....as a customer service rep.....

    she has a lot of work ahead of her.....but i think and hope she is up to the task

    will what i did change her life...i dunno....but it gives her a chance
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgyva View Post
    some people have bad luck....

    no denying that.....

    and they can accept the help out there and pull themselves back up

    and the ones that dont have the skills to get the "better" jobs.....

    whose fault is that? what role did they play in the position they currently hold?

    and more importantly, what are they doing to try and remedy that situation?

    forgive my lack of sympathy for most of these people

    i help those who actually try to help themselves

    for instance.....saw a waitress really do well with a belligerent customer a few weeks back

    wife and I watched the situation play out.....and this kid (she is 17) acted like a pro

    she kept her cool, and after the idiot finally left i waved her over

    she now works for me.....as a customer service rep.....

    she has a lot of work ahead of her.....but i think and hope she is up to the task

    will what i did change her life...i dunno....but it gives her a chance
    I'm not really arguing with you about whose "fault" it all is. The problem is pretty systemic - there have always been good, bad, and mediocre workers and that's not ever going to change. And what bothers me when conversations go off on this tangent is it's really a way to change the focus from a macro trend, which is more and more income going to the top, and flat or falling wages and earnings for the vast majority to blaming it on individuals, so a micro look. If it's no one's fault but their own that society is allocating rising shares to the top 1%, globally, and that this isn't a change in the rules of the game, but a change in the worthiness of the bottom 80% to wages versus the top 1%, then we really CAN ignore all this and if someone whines, just say - it's your own damn fault. Sorry. And we can conclude that the modern day CEO is a productivity machine, far better than his cohorts in 1950, and deserves to be paid the modern day equivalent of royalty, with his heirs set up for life!

    I don't believe that. The trends are macro, and even good workers are getting less pay and low raises in any particular job. When a plant closes and moves offshore and 500 people lose their jobs, there just do not exist equivalent jobs for the GOOD workers to move into. The jobs that do exist pay less. Sure, someone can rise above stocking shelves to management, but not everyone can and the person who DOES stock shelves is needed and either should or should not in a functioning system share in rising productivity and profits and be able to afford the basics on the income from that job. If not, then what do we do about that.

    Saying, well that shelf person should work harder and if he did he'd make more money doesn't change that the next guy in his job cannot make it on that pay. If that job doesn't pay enough to afford healthcare then what do we do when that person or his kids get sick? The job won't go away, so blaming THAT guy for holding it isn't an answer.

    Similarly, in that restaurant there are some probably ordinary waitresses. What do you think a reasonable expectation should be of them? If they're not extraordinary, they "deserve" financial insecurity and no healthcare insurance? If their kid gets sick, they have no one to blame but themselves for the bankruptcy, for doing an average job in an average vocation?
    Last edited by JasperL; 06-11-15 at 04:25 PM.

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