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Thread: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

  1. #201
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I doubt anyone is against police, schools, military, highways, etc but there are many agencies and bureaucracies which are ineffective, redundant, unnecessary and a waste of public money. That holds true in most democracies. And many, like those you mentioned, must always have public scrutiny to ensure the public is getting value for their dollar.
    So what you are saying is that government is a good thing, up to the point that it becomes wasteful. I agree.

    I would think that part of the solution to redundancy and unnecessary government is the KISS method. No reason for a zillion programs to solve the individual issues in our society, when a positive economic growth policy (low taxation, adequate infrastructure creation, strong property rights, etc) would have eliminated the need for all of those programs.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  2. #202
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    The growing gap is concerning.

    However, it isn't the role of the government to regulate it...
    Why not?

    Doesn't our government exist to benefits the people? Why would we not want government to fix something (assuming that it is fixable) that harms us, or to create something that improves our lives when the private sector is fails to do so?

    And who decides what the roll of government is? Don't the rulers decide?
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  3. #203
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Why not?

    Doesn't our government exist to benefits the people? Why would we not want government to fix something (assuming that it is fixable) that harms us, or to create something that improves our lives when the private sector is fails to do so?

    And who decides what the roll of government is? Don't the rulers decide?
    Im pretty sure the constitution decides.... as worthless as it has become.

    It isn't the role of government to tell a private company how much those of the higher levels of responsibility can make, how much profit they can make, and how much their lower level and lower responsibility employees can make. It isn't the government's responsibility to make financial decisions FOR companies. It isn't the government's place to tell a business owner or corporation that they are making too much money.

  4. #204
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    The thing is, far too many people have jobs which do not pay them enough to do more than break even, sometimes not even that. Not even mentioning those who have stopped working.

    It seems wrong somehow for a person to work a full-time job, perhaps even a full AND a part-time job (or in the case of a family, both adults work full-time jobs/multiple jobs) and still not make enough to be considered middle class.

    Now, IMO this either means wages are too low...or it means expenses are too high. Perhaps a combo of both.

    Of course there are areas of the country which are exceptions to this state...or perhaps the other way around.,,


    But either way, it seems to me that too many people do not have sufficient income for their expenses.

    Personally, I break even, with a tiny bit extra most of the time for unexpected expenses and such (depends on how much OT I work).

    But then, I'm underpaid for the position I work in.

    so according to you, every job should pay middle class wages

    never owned a business, have you?

    ever managed one?

    every job is not worth a large wage....just telling it like it is

    and why are you underpaid? why did you accept a position paying you less than what you believe you are worth?

    did you negotiate? what have you done since being hired to show your boss you are worth more?

    what skills do you possess? are there better jobs available elsewhere?

    what do you NEED to do to earn more?

    only you can answer all those questions.....

    you know your circumstances.....

    you feel you are underpaid.....what does the market say? does it say you are paid fairly? (other similar jobs in the area)

    and finally.....what are you doing about being underpaid as you say?
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

  5. #205
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    Im pretty sure the constitution decides.... as worthless as it has become.

    It isn't the role of government to tell a private company how much those of the higher levels of responsibility can make, how much profit they can make, and how much their lower level and lower responsibility employees can make. It isn't the government's responsibility to make financial decisions FOR companies. It isn't the government's place to tell a business owner or corporation that they are making too much money.
    So tell me what part of the constitution says what the roll of government is. And doesn't the constitution contain provisions for it to be altered? It appears to me that our founding fathers were smart enough to realize that they weren't thinking of everything that needed to be dealt with, and that our needs may change over time.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  6. #206
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    So tell me what part of the constitution says what the roll of government is. And doesn't the constitution contain provisions for it to be altered? It appears to me that our founding fathers were smart enough to realize that they weren't thinking of everything that needed to be dealt with, and that our needs may change over time.
    Look, I am not going to give you a 9th grade civics lesson. If you don't understand how Amendments to the Constitution work, and the powers of the federal government enumerated within the constitution I advise you to go and read up on that.

  7. #207
    Anti-democracy advocate
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Why not?

    Doesn't our government exist to benefits the people? Why would we not want government to fix something (assuming that it is fixable) that harms us, or to create something that improves our lives when the private sector is fails to do so?

    And who decides what the roll of government is? Don't the rulers decide?
    government exist to secure rights........ that is all.

    article 1 section 8 are the delegated powers of congress , only those powers which are delegated can congress act on.

    you don't elect people to determine what the constitution says, or create their own powers.
    Anti-Democracy advocate, Mixed government is the only good government

    THE
    second point to be examined is, whether the [constitutional ]convention were authorized to frame and propose this mixed Constitution.


  8. #208
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    And when there becomes a shortage in those fields because they don't pay enough....the wage will rise.
    My response will be short because I want to focus on the most important parts of your post.

    "Enough pay" is relative. If companies do not pay their workers any more than they used to, why would people be less likely than they were before to take jobs in those fields. Recently unemployment has been really bad so people are clamoring for jobs even if the pay is bad. Also, companies can outsource jobs to foreign workers who think $5 per hour is a good wage. Companies can also automate many of these jobs. For example Walmart has machines to do a lot of their checkouts. So even if companies are working more they don't need to pay their workers more. I wouldn't. I would use the profits for giving myself a 50% raise, and use the rest to build the company.

    Unemployment, outsourcing, and technology can keep the middle class's wages from rising even when companies are more productive and profitable and workers are more productive and profitable.

  9. #209
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Everyone willing to educate themselves and put in the work...coupled with sensible fiscal choices can.
    Well, the minimum you have to earn to be in the top 1% is $520,000 per year. The average person in the top 1% earns $1,390,000 per year.
    What Does It Take to Be in the Top 1 Percent? Not As Much As You Think - U.S. Global Investors

    So all you need to earn $520,000 a year is to get a Bachelor's and work 40 hours a week plus a few hours of overtime?

  10. #210
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    No, not by our understanding of rich.



    But consider for a moment what we in this country have, even our poorest. Everyone here ALREADY IS rich, as far as I'm concerned.
    Yes, most people in America is indeed very rich. Problem is the middle class has not really gotten any richer than they were 45 years ago. One reason the middle class seems richer is now both husbands and wives work and they work longer hours. Also, even though wages go up, prices go up just as fast.

    When you look at hourly wages adjusted for inflation you find that the middle class has stagnated for 45 years.
    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-zdtJ1XIr7z...urly-wages.png

    Historically the middle class has gotten richer and richer but something has changed. There are two reasons for this.

    The first is that the economy has slowed down. But when you look at GDP per person hourly wages still should have gone up. The second reason is that today 1% of people capture most of the economic growth.

    In the recovery from our current recession the 1% took 95% of the economic growth from the recovery. Incomes for the rich rose by 31% while those for the middle class rose by .4%.
    One percent recovery: 95 percent of gains have gone to the top one percent.

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