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Thread: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

  1. #151
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Perhaps some of the situations I see are specific to my area then.

    very possibly

    some areas of the country are thriving

    some are just squeaking by

    with my skills, and expertise, i doubt i could make 1/3 of what i make in the detroit area

    but i have had headhunters call me inquiring whether or not i was happy from denver, austin, ft myers, sacramento in just the last 6 months

    skills will always be the difference....those that have them can write their own ticket in some areas

    for the low skill, low educated worker, the company has the power

    for the high skills, it varies.....

    in my area, average ASE mechanics are making 80k.....good ones 115k

    yet you take those skills to some areas, and maybe they make 45-60k

    so yes, the area you live matters a great deal

    but you can turn the odds in your favor by being the upper tier of whatever you do
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    It troubles me a great deal. America needs more social benefits for its people and more draconian taxes on the top 10%.

    This video really pisses off Republicans.


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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    all self-limiting factors.
    Of course that's false. You apparently believe in Garrison Keillor's Lake Wobegon, where are the women are good looking, all the children above average. Effort, will and hard work - stuff we can control - only takes a person so far - evidence is all around us. Not everyone CAN be a top doctor, lawyer, or businessman. The few who rise to the top have, by definition, unique/rare skills or insight or luck or ability, and no amount of education or effort can overcome that.

  4. #154
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    Trickle down is the only economics. Money doesn't flow from where it's not to wear it is.
    Then why is it that - generally speaking - the greater the income inequality gap, the greater the degree of poverty, and the smaller the income inequality gap, the higher the standard of living of the population?
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Then why is it that - generally speaking - the greater the income inequality gap, the greater the degree of poverty, and the smaller the income inequality gap, the higher the standard of living of the population?
    Those issues are totally unrelated. Median income rises when opportunity increases. Opportunity decreases with over regulation, a sluggish economy and over taxation. The old axiom that it takes money to make money is true, especially when it takes money to overcome the obstacles that government puts in front of entrepreneurs which puts success out of reach for many people who aspire to become business owners.

    You can't build anyone up by tearing others down. That's what redistribution schemes do.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    Those issues are totally unrelated. Median income rises when opportunity increases. Opportunity decreases with over regulation, a sluggish economy and over taxation. The old axiom that it takes money to make money is true, especially when it takes money to overcome the obstacles that government puts in front of entrepreneurs which puts success out of reach for many people who aspire to become business owners.

    You can't build anyone up by tearing others down. That's what redistribution schemes do.
    Really? And you know what? If one just listens to your rhetoric, your logic - which has been the conservative party line since Reagan - it sounds so sensible, so reasonable, doesn't it?

    But there's a difference between theory and reality. Try comparing your theory above to the reality of the world:

    - All first-world democracies have strong government, high effective taxes, and strong regulation. There are many democracies who have one or two (or none) of those three properties...and these nations are ALL third-world nations.

    That is reality. If conservative economic dogma were true, then the above SHOULD have resulted in most or all nations with strong government, high effective taxes, and strong regulation becoming third-world nations...and those nations that do not have all three of those properties should be more successful...but they are not.

    Like I said, your rhetoric sounds nice...but all the first-world and third-world democracies prove that rhetoric wrong.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgyva View Post
    very possibly

    some areas of the country are thriving

    some are just squeaking by

    with my skills, and expertise, i doubt i could make 1/3 of what i make in the detroit area

    but i have had headhunters call me inquiring whether or not i was happy from denver, austin, ft myers, sacramento in just the last 6 months

    skills will always be the difference....those that have them can write their own ticket in some areas

    for the low skill, low educated worker, the company has the power

    for the high skills, it varies.....

    in my area, average ASE mechanics are making 80k.....good ones 115k

    yet you take those skills to some areas, and maybe they make 45-60k

    so yes, the area you live matters a great deal

    but you can turn the odds in your favor by being the upper tier of whatever you do
    The thing is, far too many people have jobs which do not pay them enough to do more than break even, sometimes not even that. Not even mentioning those who have stopped working.

    It seems wrong somehow for a person to work a full-time job, perhaps even a full AND a part-time job (or in the case of a family, both adults work full-time jobs/multiple jobs) and still not make enough to be considered middle class.

    Now, IMO this either means wages are too low...or it means expenses are too high. Perhaps a combo of both.

    Of course there are areas of the country which are exceptions to this state...or perhaps the other way around.,,


    But either way, it seems to me that too many people do not have sufficient income for their expenses.

    Personally, I break even, with a tiny bit extra most of the time for unexpected expenses and such (depends on how much OT I work).

    But then, I'm underpaid for the position I work in.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Really? And you know what? If one just listens to your rhetoric, your logic - which has been the conservative party line since Reagan - it sounds so sensible, so reasonable, doesn't it?

    But there's a difference between theory and reality. Try comparing your theory above to the reality of the world:

    - All first-world democracies have strong government, high effective taxes, and strong regulation. There are many democracies who have one or two (or none) of those three properties...and these nations are ALL third-world nations.

    That is reality. If conservative economic dogma were true, then the above SHOULD have resulted in most or all nations with strong government, high effective taxes, and strong regulation becoming third-world nations...and those nations that do not have all three of those properties should be more successful...but they are not.

    Like I said, your rhetoric sounds nice...but all the first-world and third-world democracies prove that rhetoric wrong.
    You can't blindly compare first world democracies based on strength of government, tax rates and regulation. There is much more involved and the devil is in the details. I won't make the same blanket claims that you've made. I will say this however. Year after year the United States has been slipping down the rankings of economic freedom. We now rank number twelve behind such power houses and Estonia, Ireland and Chile.

    The problem isn't unequal distribution of wealth. It's government forced unequal distribution of opportunity.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    You can't blindly compare first world democracies based on strength of government, tax rates and regulation. There is much more involved and the devil is in the details. I won't make the same blanket claims that you've made. I will say this however. Year after year the United States has been slipping down the rankings of economic freedom. We now rank number twelve behind such power houses and Estonia, Ireland and Chile.

    The problem isn't unequal distribution of wealth. It's government forced unequal distribution of opportunity.
    Again, guy, show me a first-world democracy that does NOT have all three of the following: strong government, high effective taxes, and strong regulation.

    And then tell me why that is.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Of course that's false. You apparently believe in Garrison Keillor's Lake Wobegon, where are the women are good looking, all the children above average. Effort, will and hard work - stuff we can control - only takes a person so far - evidence is all around us. Not everyone CAN be a top doctor, lawyer, or businessman. The few who rise to the top have, by definition, unique/rare skills or insight or luck or ability, and no amount of education or effort can overcome that.
    Failing to become rich due to personal limitations does not make it society's responsibility to step in and raise your standard of living for you.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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