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Thread: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

  1. #141
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Has anyone ever heard of "trickle-down economics"?
    Trickle down is the only economics. Money doesn't flow from where it's not to wear it is.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    Trickle down is the only economics. Money doesn't flow from where it's not to wear it is.
    Wealth is created by production. Production requires workers. Money flows both up and down, but the net value of production is an upwards trickle (or else the rich wouldn't be rich).
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Everyone willing to educate themselves and put in the work...coupled with sensible fiscal choices can.
    LOL, that's ridiculous. The vast majority don't have the temperament or skill or intelligence or tolerance for risk or the ability to prioritize their career over all else, so someone to take care of any family, and the luck or fortune to fill a niche that pays well, etc.

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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Spend some time as a CEO, then you'll find out.

    and..."Justified"? Justified by whom? It's not like they're stealing it....they're being paid, willingly. Ask the people that pay them why it's justified.
    The people who pay them are ultimately shareholders, but for public companies it's rare that any shareholders or small group of them can effectively exert power, and so the decision is made by Board members, who are often CEOs who are deciding on the pay of other CEOs, some of them on their board, informed by "consultants" who justify escalating pay packages for CEOs by looking at other pay packages with escalating pay. It's like housing prices in the bubble. One sale at an inflated price was used to justify other nearby sales at inflated prices. The pay for CEOs is a market of sorts, but one with a lot of known problems.

    I'm an investor and the big problem with escalating pay packages is they (typically) lavishly reward mediocre performance. When the market is booming, in large part because of factors beyond the control of any CEO (general economy, Fed policy on rates, etc.) their stock options pay off handsomely even if they underperform their peers. And when the market tanks, they typically don't share that risk. They get new options at the low prices after a crash, and so get rewarded on the bounce that, again, they have little to nothing to do with.

  5. #145
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    One problem with that, currently at least....


    Many/most of the decent paying jobs almost require a degree of some sort, and the better require at least a 4-year one. That could cost a person tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars, depending on degree, school, and what kind of grants they can get.

    It's basically a debt gate to many "good" jobs.

    If you don't pay the toll, you don't have the opportunity.


    Now, I'm not saying college should be free (or at least not without serious limits, because I know damn well some people would stay in school if that was the case), but for ****s sake it's basically a door that keeps the people with less money out, even if they have the capability.

    Sure a few get through, but even then they have to be exceptional, because the public schools in lower-income areas are crappy compared to richer neighborhoods....not to mention a poor family won't have as much time to help their kids (because working a couple-few jobs for what little money they can get...or hell, they may be ****ty parents and not bother to, although that's not a low-income specific thing.

    So we have a person who starts in a poor situation, with barriers all around to realizing their full potential, then if they manage to get decent grades in school and survive whatever else their youth throws at them, they have to indebt themselves to what seems an overly expensive higher education system just to get through the door that leads to....


    A job market which is frankly seemingly unable to provide jobs for them all...or why do you have overqualified (degree-wise, at least) people in multiple areas?

    Sure they could just not care, or they don't know how to find a new job, or whatever you want as a reason.

    But it seems to me that if this ****storm were working as well as you say, we'd have more capable people getting the jobs that require said capability.


    And then when they do get hired, they're liable to be underpaid.

    In short, generally higher education is too expensive, and job availability/pay is too low.

    And thousands of poor individuals don't even encounter that **** because they can't get away from the ****storm the society they were born into placed them in.




    Ok that got long-winded and probably covers multiple problems....

    i have 155 employees

    i have over 40 that made over 100k last year

    only 3 of the 40 have college degrees.....3 out of 40

    my college degree employees work in advertising, or hr, or accounting.....and all make 45-80k

    now....is that unusual?

    no....not in the sales business

    it is long hours, and the ability to deal with every facet of people

    from the ditch diggers to the brain surgeons.....and sell them our product

    a college degree is one way out

    trade schools are another.....i have a number of ASE certified mechanics that made bank last year

    i have body shop technicians that make bank

    again...is this abnormal......no

    the key is skills.....every one of them is VERY good at what they do......at or near the top in their fields

    and i bet if you asked where some of them came from, it wasnt pleasant suburbia......

    so i go by what i see.....where i came from.....where my employees came from

    i am so tired of excuses as to why people cant better themselves

    yes....it isnt easy.....success never is
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

  6. #146
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by The Mark View Post
    Frankly, I have a hard time understanding how some of the CEO/upper management incomes I've heard/read about can be justified.

    What the hell could they possibly be doing that justified 100m (as an example, some make more, some make less) in income/stock options/benefits/whatever?
    ever been to a board meeting?

    ever asked a question like that in one of them?

    maybe you need to.....

    the board decides what to pay the executives.....

    just as most people have a boss, the executives report to the board.....and yes....they get canned also

    but what does it matter if Jeff Immelt makes 25 million last year? why would i care?

    does what he earn affect me in any way imaginable? no

    his earnings dont affect mine.....never will
    “Most of the shadows of this life are caused by standing in one's own sunshine.”

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

  7. #147
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Wealth is created by production. Production requires workers. Money flows both up and down, but the net value of production is an upwards trickle (or else the rich wouldn't be rich).
    First the straw man. Wealth is not necessarily created by production. On to the rest of the tortured logic. Nothing happens in a vacuum but if you see this as the chicken and egg as to which comes first, Capital always precedes production.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury." Attributed to Alexander Tytler

  8. #148
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    LOL, that's ridiculous. The vast majority don't have the temperament or skill or intelligence or tolerance for risk or the ability to prioritize their career over all else, so someone to take care of any family, and the luck or fortune to fill a niche that pays well, etc.
    all self-limiting factors.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  9. #149
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    The people who pay them are ultimately shareholders, but for public companies it's rare that any shareholders or small group of them can effectively exert power, and so the decision is made by Board members, who are often CEOs who are deciding on the pay of other CEOs, some of them on their board, informed by "consultants" who justify escalating pay packages for CEOs by looking at other pay packages with escalating pay. It's like housing prices in the bubble. One sale at an inflated price was used to justify other nearby sales at inflated prices. The pay for CEOs is a market of sorts, but one with a lot of known problems.

    I'm an investor and the big problem with escalating pay packages is they (typically) lavishly reward mediocre performance. When the market is booming, in large part because of factors beyond the control of any CEO (general economy, Fed policy on rates, etc.) their stock options pay off handsomely even if they underperform their peers. And when the market tanks, they typically don't share that risk. They get new options at the low prices after a crash, and so get rewarded on the bounce that, again, they have little to nothing to do with.
    Then invest in a different company.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  10. #150
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    Re: Inequality Troubles Americans Across Party Lines, Times/CBS Poll Finds

    Quote Originally Posted by gdgyva View Post
    i have 155 employees

    i have over 40 that made over 100k last year

    only 3 of the 40 have college degrees.....3 out of 40

    my college degree employees work in advertising, or hr, or accounting.....and all make 45-80k

    now....is that unusual?

    no....not in the sales business

    it is long hours, and the ability to deal with every facet of people

    from the ditch diggers to the brain surgeons.....and sell them our product

    a college degree is one way out

    trade schools are another.....i have a number of ASE certified mechanics that made bank last year

    i have body shop technicians that make bank

    again...is this abnormal......no

    the key is skills.....every one of them is VERY good at what they do......at or near the top in their fields

    and i bet if you asked where some of them came from, it wasnt pleasant suburbia......

    so i go by what i see.....where i came from.....where my employees came from

    i am so tired of excuses as to why people cant better themselves

    yes....it isnt easy.....success never is
    Perhaps some of the situations I see are specific to my area then.
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

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