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Thread: In Baltimore schools, free meals for all

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    Re: In Baltimore schools, free meals for all

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    I am surprised you have missed the many news articles about schools, or teachers, confiscating parent supplied lunches that don't meet governmental nutritional standards. I would suggest you take a few minutes to bring yourself up to speed on the issue.

    As to conflating, I would suggest the idea of supplying free lunches, regardless of need, suggests there is an objective in play. With money so tight in education, what would be the purpose of providing free lunches to all, regardless of need? Why make decisions on what to make for lunch for little Johnnie or Sally, when you can just send them off and let somebody else decide? Considering there is a growing trend to scrutinize what parents are providing their children, why fight city hall.

    The slippery slope is abundantly clear here. I would think someone would have to be willfully trying to avoid seeing it.
    well, I think a person has to have some age to them... and be a parent.. to see the slippery slope.
    I came up long before we started holding parents criminally liable for truancy... and then telling parents the very few valid excuses there are for a child not to be in class... none of which the parents are authorized to give.
    I came up before the state told parents they had no say in the medical decision of their daughters concerning birth control or abortion...while simultaneously disallowing parents from sending their kids to school with Tylenol....or peanut butter sandwiches.
    .. before the state decided that allowing your kids to be outside playing on their own was reason to investigate/incarcerate the parents.. or remove the kids from the household altogether.
    ...before parent had to sign a permission slip to allowing their children to eat cookies in school.
    ...before children in middle school were suspended for having a condom.. as well as threatened with a sexual harassment suit because the kids showed his friends ( that kid was my youngest son.. and resulted in the police escorting me from the premises for being extraordinarily uncivilized to the utter retards running that place.)

    but meh, that's what we get when so many progressives are in positions of authority.. .they know what is best for the kids and the parents are just obstacles to be worked around, or removed.

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    Re: In Baltimore schools, free meals for all

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    well, I think a person has to have some age to them... and be a parent.. to see the slippery slope.
    I came up long before we started holding parents criminally liable for truancy... and then telling parents the very few valid excuses there are for a child not to be in class... none of which the parents are authorized to give.
    I came up before the state told parents they had no say in the medical decision of their daughters concerning birth control or abortion...while simultaneously disallowing parents from sending their kids to school with Tylenol....or peanut butter sandwiches.
    .. before the state decided that allowing your kids to be outside playing on their own was reason to investigate/incarcerate the parents.. or remove the kids from the household altogether.
    ...before parent had to sign a permission slip to allowing their children to eat cookies in school.
    ...before children in middle school were suspended for having a condom.. as well as threatened with a sexual harassment suit because the kids showed his friends ( that kid was my youngest son.. and resulted in the police escorting me from the premises for being extraordinarily uncivilized to the utter retards running that place.)

    but meh, that's what we get when so many progressives are in positions of authority.. .they know what is best for the kids and the parents are just obstacles to be worked around, or removed.
    Great summary Thrilla. Impossible to refute.

    As the slope steepens, in the Progressive State, parents may someday only be seen as breeding stock.

    Absurd? How did we get from Milk subsidies to regulating children's daily nutrition without parental consent?

    As with so many Progressive agenda's, the inevitable end game becomes crystal clear.

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    Re: In Baltimore schools, free meals for all

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    I am surprised you have missed the many news articles about schools, or teachers, confiscating parent supplied lunches that don't meet governmental nutritional standards. I would suggest you take a few minutes to bring yourself up to speed on the issue.

    As to conflating, I would suggest the idea of supplying free lunches, regardless of need, suggests there is an objective in play. With money so tight in education, what would be the purpose of providing free lunches to all, regardless of need? Why make decisions on what to make for lunch for little Johnnie or Sally, when you can just send them off and let somebody else decide? Considering there is a growing trend to scrutinize what parents are providing their children, why fight city hall.

    The slippery slope is abundantly clear here. I would think someone would have to be willfully trying to avoid seeing it.
    Fair enough, "ocean515".

    I haven't read or seen any of the incidents you mentioned, and none have occurred in my school district, but I'll consider doing a quick Google to see if there's a trend for these types of occurrences. It would seem you'd supply sources for your assertion, but so be-it.

    I think you're reading too much into this.

    'Slippery Slopes' can be seen anywhere we chose, and if we so desire, we can use them as excuses to never do anything as individuals, nor as a society. I don't see a slippery slope, nor do I see a kid's lunch "suggests there is an objective in play".

    Sometimes things are what they are, no more nor less, and in this case it looks to me like a school provides a kid's lunch.

    What else can I say?
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    The 10 Commandments of Logic - (Courtesy of Abbazorkzog Blog)

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    Re: In Baltimore schools, free meals for all

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    Fair enough, "ocean515".

    I haven't read or seen any of the incidents you mentioned, and none have occurred in my school district, but I'll consider doing a quick Google to see if there's a trend for these types of occurrences. It would seem you'd supply sources for your assertion, but so be-it.

    I think you're reading too much into this.

    'Slippery Slopes' can be seen anywhere we chose, and if we so desire, we can use them as excuses to never do anything as individuals, nor as a society. I don't see a slippery slope, nor do I see a kid's lunch "suggests there is an objective in play".

    Sometimes things are what they are, no more nor less, and in this case it looks to me like a school provides a kid's lunch.

    What else can I say?

    I can't make the issue any clearer than I have. The reaction to schools circumventing parental decision making is for you to consider.

    As to sources, forgive me, but I grow weary of investing time and energy when an issue has been headlines for a number of years. It seems to me, I should not have to be responsible for someone's else's lack of knowledge on a subject.

    However:

    School lunches and the culture of shaming parents | BabyCenter Blog


    And just to show where the "children going hungry" issue fits:

    Elementary school throws away 40 students' lunches because their parents were behind on payments | Daily Mail Online

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    Re: In Baltimore schools, free meals for all

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    I can't make the issue any clearer than I have. The reaction to schools circumventing parental decision making is for you to consider.

    As to sources, forgive me, but I grow weary of investing time and energy when an issue has been headlines for a number of years. It seems to me, I should not have to be responsible for someone's else's lack of knowledge on a subject.

    However:

    School lunches and the culture of shaming parents | BabyCenter Blog


    And just to show where the "children going hungry" issue fits:

    Elementary school throws away 40 students' lunches because their parents were behind on payments | Daily Mail Online
    Thanks for the links ocean515, and I'm not going to beat on them, but the first is a private school where the parent pays tuition - and it is an individual mother's small-time blog, not a news article. But fair enough, if this causes you concerns.

    Item #2 is definitely screwed-up, though it has nothing to do with our topic on-hand. Oddly enough though, if the school in article #2 had Baltimore's newly instated lunch policy, the incident never would have happened.
    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

    The 10 Commandments of Logic - (Courtesy of Abbazorkzog Blog)

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    Re: In Baltimore schools, free meals for all

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    Thanks for the links ocean515, and I'm not going to beat on them, but the first is a private school where the parent pays tuition - and it is an individual mother's small-time blog, not a news article. But fair enough, if this causes you concerns.

    Item #2 is definitely screwed-up, though it has nothing to do with our topic on-hand. Oddly enough though, if the school in article #2 had Baltimore's newly instated lunch policy, the incident never would have happened.
    As I wrote, my desire to delve into a big effort to post links, etc., is rather small when the issue is rather well reported. There are many other reports and articles on the subject if you are so inclined.

    As to having nothing to do with the topic at hand, I would suggest you consider expanding your horizons. The topic at hand is free lunches for all. As I have written, the only way to look at such an effort is to assume the idea is to have every student participate. Once completely dependent on the school for nutrition, what comes next? The link may have related to unpaid meals, but where is the "children going hungry" meme that has brought about all this scrutiny and investment? What responsibilities are these government entities going to allow parents to have?

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    Re: In Baltimore schools, free meals for all

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    I'm not opposed to a minimum basic income guarantee... it's one of my favorite policy ideas as well.... and yes, it could solve many problems.
    but it's derided as a crazy libertarian utopia dream.. blablalba... so it's doubtful it would come to fruition in the foreseeable future.

    but we're talking about reality here.. not our fantasies.... winners and losers are chosen.... programs are means tested.


    why would you refuse to give them housing? kids need housing as well..... or is that the one area you think parents should have to provide for their kids?

    I'm a long time warrior in this war on parents... that's probably something i should have mentioned before..... I've been fighting the progressive notions of removing parents from their children lives forever and a day.... about 35 years or so.( I'm not on the winning side, FWIW)
    Greetings, Thrilla.

    I believe Ceausescu, brutal Romanian Dictator for over two decades, forcibly removed children as young as toddlers from their parents and put them in state-run schools as an experiment. Living conditions for the children in those schools were horrible - cruel uncaring teachers, insufficient food, and lack of heat in the Romanian winters - caused many deaths. There was a revolution and both he and his wife were apprehended while trying to escape the country, and after a summary trial in a military court both were executed by firing squad on Christmas Day, 1986. The execution site has recently opened as a museum for tourists. Good riddance to two very bad apples who lived the good life in a castle while their people suffered under what has been called the most repressive regime in Europe!

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    Re: In Baltimore schools, free meals for all

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yeah I know, **** those kids because their parents are allegedly making these bad choices. Nothing like punishing people for the assumed and unproven sins of others, am I right?
    So deciding to not feed someone for free is punishing them?

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    Re: In Baltimore schools, free meals for all

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    As I wrote, my desire to delve into a big effort to post links, etc., is rather small when the issue is rather well reported. There are many other reports and articles on the subject if you are so inclined.

    As to having nothing to do with the topic at hand, I would suggest you consider expanding your horizons. The topic at hand is free lunches for all. As I have written, the only way to look at such an effort is to assume the idea is to have every student participate. Once completely dependent on the school for nutrition, what comes next? The link may have related to unpaid meals, but where is the "children going hungry" meme that has brought about all this scrutiny and investment? What responsibilities are these government entities going to allow parents to have?
    I've seen nothing indicated that there's a goal to have every student eat a free lunch, so your assumption is yours alone, without some other evidence to the contrary.

    And there's also nothing I've seen stopping the pupils from NOT eating the free lunch, either.

    In my two High Schools (one private, one public), we had reasonably priced lunches in the private school, and heavily subsidized lunches in the public school. Both schools were in dense urban neighborhoods, and consequently maybe about half the kids ate-in at my private school, and only 25% at best ate-in at the heavily subsidized lunches at the public school. This was a (very) long time ago, and I haven't heard of any changes as of yet.

    (Why the Catholic School kids ate-in more than the public school is beyond me - there's probably some stereotypes that can be made)
    to me
    I see the points you're attempting to make, but they seem over-the-top, and tenuous.

    It seems as if you're looking for conspiracies behind a kid's lunch program.

    And, I don't see evidence supporting some of your suppositions, as I stated in my first two sentences of this reply.
    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

    The 10 Commandments of Logic - (Courtesy of Abbazorkzog Blog)

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    Re: In Baltimore schools, free meals for all

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    I'm not opposed to a minimum basic income guarantee... it's one of my favorite policy ideas as well.... and yes, it could solve many problems.
    but it's derided as a crazy libertarian utopia dream.. blablalba... so it's doubtful it would come to fruition in the foreseeable future.

    but we're talking about reality here.. not our fantasies.... winners and losers are chosen.... programs are means tested.


    why would you refuse to give them housing? kids need housing as well..... or is that the one area you think parents should have to provide for their kids?

    I'm a long time warrior in this war on parents... that's probably something i should have mentioned before..... I've been fighting the progressive notions of removing parents from their children lives forever and a day.... about 35 years or so.( I'm not on the winning side, FWIW)
    Good to see another GMI advocate.

    I first heard of GMI from an ultra conservative Libertarian buddy of mine, and thought he was crazy! Firstly, it sounded like some socialist's/communist's wet dream. Secondly, why was my more-conservative-than-God buddy coming-up with this Leftist plot? Free money for all? Whether you need it, or not? Wha???

    But after I thought about it for awhile, it made a lot of sense.

    However, I was earlier applying my statement of 'not providing housing' in the context of a GMI (and single-payer healthcare).

    The GMI would (hopefully) eliminate housing & food programs. I guess more accurately, it would relieve us as a society from having to provide assistance in a particular form (housing, food, etc.). The individual will make their own decisions as to how to allot their small stipend. Live with a relative, tossing them a few bucks for their spare room - or go in with a some roommates on a cheap apartment. Pool your money for food, and shop & cook wisely.

    I don't believe we owe anyone their own housing, private living residence, car, or phone as part of our social contract - but we don't want them to perish from lack of basic food or shelter, either. And I believe the GMI does just this. It also gives downtrodden individuals some control & decision-making in their lives, and will allow dignity. And individuals have every incentive to add more bucks to their GMI through work & endeavor, 'cuz there's nothing to lose or qualify for in terms of min or max income. There's no need for cash-under-the-table, or fraudulently scamming benefits - everyone gets them, and everyone's' is the same.

    So, it's because of the GMI that I believe I see no need for housing (or food or other) assistance.

    As long as there's a single-payer health system in place, there's no need for healthcare entitlements or subsidies either.

    Not only do I feel this is very fair & equitable, I feel it would more than satisfy any social contract I'd care to provide.

    It ends most (hopefully all) entitlements, and in particular it end means tested entitlements - they're wrong on so many levels & in so many ways ....
    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

    The 10 Commandments of Logic - (Courtesy of Abbazorkzog Blog)

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