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Thread: SCOTUS rules in favor of Muslim woman in suit against Abercrombie and Fitch

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    Re: SCOTUS rules in favor of Muslim woman in suit against Abercrombie and Fitch

    This went to the Supreme Court.....?

    And of course Thomas dissented.
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    Re: SCOTUS rules in favor of Muslim woman in suit against Abercrombie and Fitch

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Your argument against the notion that the dress code is unreasonably restrictive is to give unreasonable examples that could be very easily restricted? I don't think you grasp the issues at play here.
    That doesn't even make sense... if those examples sued and won they would no longer be restricted and that is the point of this debate. That said, they are not unreasonable examples... they are fine examples of people not wanting to wear or dress the way that the employer wants them to dress. There is nothing to grasp. It is just that simple.

    You assert this without evidence. I dismiss it without evidence.
    There is no evidence for what is reasonable... talk about not grasping the concept.
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    Re: SCOTUS rules in favor of Muslim woman in suit against Abercrombie and Fitch

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Because you live in a society with other people and you having money and owning things doesn't give you the right to control anything about anyone else.
    This is wrong on so many levels...

    Having money and owning things? Irrelevant. It is also a Red Herring. It is also an Appeal to Poverty.

    Logical Fallacies» Appeal to Poverty

    Racking up two logical fallacies and an irrelevant point in five words is pretty amazing.

    That said, yes, businesses do have the right to control what their employees. They can have uniforms, set hours, breaks, etc. A smart employer would never tell the potential employee why they did not get the job though... they would just say, sorry, a more qualified candidate got the position and thank you for applying and good luck. No lawsuit. No undermining of the business. Done.
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    Re: SCOTUS rules in favor of Muslim woman in suit against Abercrombie and Fitch

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    If one is attempting to mask discrimination by lack of honesty, is in my view dishonest.
    I don't think "honesty" is the word you're looking for...because there's nothing really dishonest about that statement.

    It might not be as specific as you would like, but it's not dishonest.

    personally, I don't give a reason for not hiring someone... if they ask, I simply tell them the job offer went to someone else.

    it sucks, but that's one of the cons of being in a sue-happy nation.

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    Re: SCOTUS rules in favor of Muslim woman in suit against Abercrombie and Fitch

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    I wonder how many criticizing this decision would disagree if an employer banned wearing crosses.
    a hijab is a specific item of clothing.... not a symbol that can be put on many different items ( hats, t-shirts, necklaces, tattoos, etc)

    a better analogy would be Mormon Temple garments... or a yarmulke(Kippah)... or something like that.

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    Re: SCOTUS rules in favor of Muslim woman in suit against Abercrombie and Fitch

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    a hijab is a specific item of clothing.... not a symbol that can be put on many different items ( hats, t-shirts, necklaces, tattoos, etc)

    a better analogy would be Mormon Temple garments... or a yarmulke(Kippah)... or something like that.
    Ya think?

    In the 1969 case of Tinker v. Des Moines, one of the most well-known student rights’ cases it has considered, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that students had a constitutional right to wear a black armband to school to protest U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War. Since then, courts have continued to hold that students generally have a right to express political views through their clothing.

    This can include, for example, wearing clothing that endorses or criticizes a politician or, as in more recent cases, wearing t-shirts supporting or opposing gay rights.

    Additionally, schools cannot prohibit students from wearing clothes that are in observance of their religion, such as a Muslim wearing a hijab in school.

    While most Muslim women wear the hijab for religious reasons, there are other Arab or Muslim women who choose to wear the hijab as an expression of their cultural identity.

    By wearing the hijab, Muslim women hope to communicate their political and social alliance with their country of origin and challenge the prejudice of Western discourses towards the Arabic-speaking world (Zayzafoon, 2005). In many cases, the wearing of the hijab is also used to challenge Western feminist discourses which present hijab-wearing women as oppressed or silenced.

    Women > Veiling > What is the Hijab and Why do Women Wear it? - Arabs in America
    This might have something to do with the decision in this case. And the Supreme Court didn't state that AF was violating this girls rights. It was a warning ticket.

    Just sayin...

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    Re: SCOTUS rules in favor of Muslim woman in suit against Abercrombie and Fitch

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Ya think?






    This might have something to do with the decision in this case. And the Supreme Court didn't state that AF was violating this girls rights. It was a warning ticket.

    Just sayin...
    eh.. i'm not sure Tinker is relevant ( due the difference in plaintiffs..students in public school versus potential employee with a private firm)

    .... but I do agree this was a warning ticket of sorts.

    A&F should be smarter with their employee rejections... and train their managers accordingly.

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    Re: SCOTUS rules in favor of Muslim woman in suit against Abercrombie and Fitch

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    a hijab is a specific item of clothing.... not a symbol that can be put on many different items ( hats, t-shirts, necklaces, tattoos, etc)

    a better analogy would be Mormon Temple garments... or a yarmulke(Kippah)... or something like that.
    I would have mentioned yarmulkes but too many hate Jews to appeal to their sense of empathy.

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    Re: SCOTUS rules in favor of Muslim woman in suit against Abercrombie and Fitch

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    So it is not honesty that is bad but discrimination and you are OK with masking that with obfuscation and misrepresentation.
    In this sue-happy country of ours, I'm okay with keeping your mouth shut. I mean, if an applicant has questionable personal hygiene habits is it obfuscation or misrepresentation to refrain from saying, "Sorry, Sir, but we cant hire you because you stink"? That's not to say I advocate breaking federal law, but if you're going to do it you should at least avoid being a moron by not making the applicant's case for him.
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    Re: SCOTUS rules in favor of Muslim woman in suit against Abercrombie and Fitch

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    eh.. i'm not sure Tinker is relevant ( due the difference in plaintiffs..students in public school versus potential employee with a private firm)

    .... but I do agree this was a warning ticket of sorts.

    A&F should be smarter with their employee rejections... and train their managers accordingly.
    I hear ya, but you said:.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post

    a hijab is a specific item of clothing.... not a symbol that can be put on many different items ( hats, t-shirts, necklaces, tattoos, etc)

    a better analogy would be Mormon Temple garments... or a yarmulke(Kippah)... or something like that.
    Then I said...

    In the 1969 case of Tinker v. Des Moines, one of the most well-known student rights’ cases it has considered, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that students had a constitutional right to wear a black armband to school to protest U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War. Since then, courts have continued to hold that students generally have a right to express political views through their clothing.

    This can include, for example, wearing clothing that endorses or criticizes a politician or, as in more recent cases, wearing t-shirts supporting or opposing gay rights.

    Additionally, schools cannot prohibit students from wearing clothes that are in observance of their religion, such as a Muslim wearing a hijab in school.

    While most Muslim women wear the hijab for religious reasons, there are other Arab or Muslim women who choose to wear the hijab as an expression of their cultural identity.

    By wearing the hijab, Muslim women hope to communicate their political and social alliance with their country of origin and challenge the prejudice of Western discourses towards the Arabic-speaking world (Zayzafoon, 2005). In many cases, the wearing of the hijab is also used to challenge Western feminist discourses which present hijab-wearing women as oppressed or silenced.
    The scarf and hijab aren't just a piece of clothing to those who wear them. Now, I don't really care how this all turns out. But what I'm pointing out is "relevant". You don't even have to read between the lines to see where the SC is coming from...right or wrong. Ya dig?

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