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Thread: SCOTUS rules in favor of Muslim woman in suit against Abercrombie and Fitch

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    Re: SCOTUS rules in favor of Muslim woman in suit against Abercrombie and Fitch

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Would it matter if the preference was irreligious? E.g., if research found that customers preferred to interact with and were more likely to make purchases from salespeople not wearing hats or headgear of any kind?

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    Re: SCOTUS rules in favor of Muslim woman in suit against Abercrombie and Fitch

    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneWanderer View Post
    Would it matter if the preference was irreligious? E.g., if research found that customers preferred to interact with and were more likely to make purchases from salespeople not wearing hats or headgear of any kind?
    It would not matter

    The test is pretty clear: If the employer believes a religious practice of the applicant would require a reasonable accommodation and the employer doesn't hire in order to avoid having to make such an accommodation then it is illegal discrimination.

    Customer preference is not a defense to a claim of discrimination.
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    Re: SCOTUS rules in favor of Muslim woman in suit against Abercrombie and Fitch

    I've waited to see if something bubbles up from the mind spring and here it is.

    I support the ruling.

    The issue is tangentially about Islam.

    May the resistance to America's Islamization take place elsewhere.

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    Re: SCOTUS rules in favor of Muslim woman in suit against Abercrombie and Fitch

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Employees have rights protected by law because history shows employers are not always reasonable, which negatively impacts society as a whole.
    That is totally true. That does not mean that the laws and rulings regarding the rights of the citizens running companies should be trampled.

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    Re: SCOTUS rules in favor of Muslim woman in suit against Abercrombie and Fitch

    Quote Originally Posted by coyotedelmar View Post
    SCOTUS rules in favor of Muslim woman in suit against Abercrombie and Fitch - CNNPolitics.com





    A&F didn't really help themselves with a pretty dumb argument for their side, boiling down to "well, how are we supposed to know they are wearing a head scarf for religious reasons?" Maybe I'm not knowledge on recent fashion, but I never recall head scarfs being worn for reasons besides religion or related to religion (e.g. doing a show/play/etc. where a character is a Muslim woman).

    I don't really agree with their policy on head gear in the first place, and there is a question of how far does accommodation go for a business which deals with the public. I don't really think a head scarf, at least in A&F's case, is going to do any damage to the image the company is trying to promote though. ro be honest, I'm not sure it'd damage the image of any business (outside of ones that exclusively only cater to a particular religion, but most of those I'd assume are run by a church and thus immune anyways).
    I don't think her wearing a head scarf would really affect their business, but the business should have the right to set their own dress codes. I do believe that businesses should not be allowed to discriminate against this woman because of her beliefs. By discriminate I mean they shouldn't be allowed to treat her differently than any other employees. As long as other employees have to follow the dress code, so should she. That isn't discrimination in my opinion. We as a country tend to get carried away with these types of things. We started with a good idea of working toward ending workplace discrimination and are now to the point that businesses are being forced to allow people to break dress code to wear religious attire.
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    Re: SCOTUS rules in favor of Muslim woman in suit against Abercrombie and Fitch

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
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    Re: SCOTUS rules in favor of Muslim woman in suit against Abercrombie and Fitch

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    I don't think her wearing a head scarf would really affect their business, but the business should have the right to set their own dress codes. I do believe that businesses should not be allowed to discriminate against this woman because of her beliefs. By discriminate I mean they shouldn't be allowed to treat her differently than any other employees. As long as other employees have to follow the dress code, so should she. That isn't discrimination in my opinion. We as a country tend to get carried away with these types of things. We started with a good idea of working toward ending workplace discrimination and are now to the point that businesses are being forced to allow people to break dress code to wear religious attire.
    But as the court stated: "Abercrombie’s argument that a neutral policy cannot constitute “intentional discrimination” may make sense in other contexts. But Title VII does not demand mere neutrality with regard to religious practices—that they be treated no worse than other practices. Rather, it gives them favored treatment, affirmatively obligating employers not “to failor refuse to hire or discharge any individual . . . because of such individual’s” “religious observance and practice.” Anemployer is surely entitled to have, for example, a noheadwear policy as an ordinary matter. But when an applicant requires an accommodation as an “aspec[t] ofreligious . . . practice,” it is no response that the subsequent “fail[ure] . . . to hire” was due to an otherwise-neutral policy. Title VII requires otherwise-neutral policies to give way to the need for an accommodation." http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions...14-86_p86b.pdf
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    Re: SCOTUS rules in favor of Muslim woman in suit against Abercrombie and Fitch

    In looking for their dress code, out of curiousity, found they've been in trouble in the past related to wearing of hijabs.

    Abercrombie & Fitch Sued For* Religious Discrimination
    Abercrombie & Fitch Liable for Religious Discrimination in EEOC Suit, Court Says

    I have to relook up the first, as I think it was settled out of court so EEOC didn't have anything on the outcome (or my search missed it completely). The second was one in which she already worked for the company but the complaint comes down to the same (also shows that they had no issue with the hijab in the past). It's also mentioned about the exceptions in the Press Release for the original decision in this case, in 2011
    Court Finds for EEOC in Religious Discrimination Suit Against Abercrombie & Fitch

    Through those found this nugget as well:
    USATODAY.com - Abercrombie & Fitch to pay $40M to settle bias case

    The lawsuit was filed last June in San Francisco by Hispanic and Asian groups charging that Abercrombie & Fitch, known for its "classic casual American" clothing styles, hires a disproportionately white sales force, puts minorities in less-visible jobs and cultivates a virtually all-white image in its catalogs and elsewhere. A second, similar lawsuit was filed against the company last November in New Jersey.
    If you are curious the dress code, if buzzfeed article is correct, does allow religious exemption to the headwear rule, but the one in this article is also from 2013 so it doesn't exactly apply to the case in the OP. Might explain why A&F tried to argue that they didn't know it was religious so okay to not hire her (that and the other earlier lawsuits).
    http://www.buzzfeed.com/sapna/exclus...pol#.obEQVqKEx

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    Re: SCOTUS rules in favor of Muslim woman in suit against Abercrombie and Fitch

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    It would not make a difference. Regardless of any policy, an employer must make reasonable accommodations for a religious practice. This requirement applies regardless of the policy or the reason for having the policy
    Unless there is an undue hardship on the employer, which I don't even see as being argued in this case. Without specific previously litigated cases, it is all just opinions.

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    Re: SCOTUS rules in favor of Muslim woman in suit against Abercrombie and Fitch

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    Unless there is an undue hardship on the employer, which I don't even see as being argued in this case. Without specific previously litigated cases, it is all just opinions.
    That's what A&F will have to argue now. The case was remanded to the 10th Circuit.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

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