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Thread: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

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    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Did you run out of space for your ridiculous conspiracy theories in the ME forum? What does any of this "Jews run the US for their shady business" horse**** have to do with this thread, exactly?
    American and european lefties always seem to have these bizzare conspiracy theories where its TEH JOOOOZE fault.

    Serious question-are there Israelis who come up with this crap as well?

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    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Good lord. Bombing terrorists is the same thing as surrendering simply because they won't bomb them in the way that you want them to?

    What an asinine comment.
    When you choose to lose by responding with the only option that will fail (unless you are suggesting that air wars win conflicts) you are surrendering.

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    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    The article is pretty much worthless as proof that we need to be bombing ISIS more even if it means more civilian deaths.

    As evidence that we should bomb more the only quoted source is an Iraqi major. As I've pointed out before people on the ground do not have the entire picture and while from their standpoint decisions from above appear wrong when looked at in the context of the overall mission they, the folks on the ground, often are wrong.

    There are no statements from senior Iraqi policy makers or even senior military people. Just vague statements which cannot be easy proved or disproved.

    The article then goes on to point out that US experience has been that killing lots of civilians is counter productive. It angers the locals and is the cause for taking extra precautions now. That is a verifiable fact. It's one of the few that are actually in the article.

    Looked at in that light - that is objectively picking apart the arguments it does not support your claim, rather it refutes it.
    __________________


    I assume in your saying: "we need to be bombing ISIS more even if it means more civilian deaths."

    1. That you mean "civilian deaths" of people far away whom you've never met and not your family

    2. "We" implies that you are among those doing the bombing & will have to live with the memory of having killed unarmed, innocent children, women & men.

    When I was in Iraq long before (1973) the Iraq War, I enjoyed the kindness & generous hospitality of the Iraqi civilians whose lives you consider so easily expendable. One young man sharing a Mosul city bus "kidnapped" me by insisting that I not leave until I'd memorized the Arabic symbols for the numbers we use. I spent about a week with his family while he showed me little known archeological sites in the area.

    We used to write back & forth until the Iraqi War broke out & the Iraqi people were "liberated" primarily from life & limb. Well over 1 million Iraqi civilians have been "liberated" from life in this world & countless have been burned, mutilated & traumatized since the beginning of this ongoing carnage.

    If anything, the US should be more careful not to become just as deadly to them as ISIS. If the US bombs them, then we know they'll be dead; if we forgo an opportunity to kill ISIS members, they have a chance of surviving.


    I hope you'll reconsider your sentiments Re: "we need to be bombing ISIS more even if it means more civilian deaths."



    Thanks

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    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Did you run out of space for your ridiculous conspiracy theories in the ME forum? What does any of this "Jews run the US for their shady business" horse**** have to do with this thread, exactly?
    _____________

    I was responding to another writer on the ways in which the US got involved in Iraq in the first place but its' rather revealing that you would take offense at my disdain for "snarling Hasbarats whining about "conspiracy sites"

    What does YOUR comment have to do with Americans in Iraq?

    And

    Where did I say: "Jews run the US for their shady business"?

    Nobody honestly denies that foreign, Zionist lobbies are heavily influential in U.S. Mid-East policy. For example:

    “QUIETLY LOBBYING CONGRESS TO APPROVE THE USE OF FORCE IN IRAQ WAS ONE OF AIPAC’S SUCCESSES OVER THE PAST YEAR.” AIPAC Executive Director Howard Kohr; N.Y. SUN JAN. ’03

    If you're so desperate to slander loyal American critics of America's meddlesome Zionist lobbies, you should consider how you would feel if foreign lobbies were "Quietly lobbying" your Knesset to go to Wars not in Israel's best interest..


    You need to freshen up your inventory of Hasbara Handbook responses from "that's just a conspiracy", "that's just a Hate site" & relentlessly howling "anti Semite"......The White Flag of debate.
    Last edited by B'smith; 06-04-15 at 05:23 PM.

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    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by B'smith View Post
    __________________


    I assume in your saying: "we need to be bombing ISIS more even if it means more civilian deaths."

    1. That you mean "civilian deaths" of people far away whom you've never met and not your family

    2. "We" implies that you are among those doing the bombing & will have to live with the memory of having killed unarmed, innocent children, women & men.

    When I was in Iraq long before (1973) the Iraq War, I enjoyed the kindness & generous hospitality of the Iraqi civilians whose lives you consider so easily expendable. One young man sharing a Mosul city bus "kidnapped" me by insisting that I not leave until I'd memorized the Arabic symbols for the numbers we use. I spent about a week with his family while he showed me little known archeological sites in the area.

    We used to write back & forth until the Iraqi War broke out & the Iraqi people were "liberated" primarily from life & limb. Well over 1 million Iraqi civilians have been "liberated" from life in this world & countless have been burned, mutilated & traumatized since the beginning of this ongoing carnage.

    If anything, the US should be more careful not to become just as deadly to them as ISIS. If the US bombs them, then we know they'll be dead; if we forgo an opportunity to kill ISIS members, they have a chance of surviving.


    I hope you'll reconsider your sentiments Re: "we need to be bombing ISIS more even if it means more civilian deaths."



    Thanks
    My friend I think you need to reread what I've written. I am not advocating that we increase our attacks on ISIS at the expense of the deaths of innocents. I'm arguing exactly the opposite. I'm arguing that the rules of engagement that keep pilots from firing without authorization, rules that save civilian life are necessary and proper.

    I have not ever and do not now advocate that we kill ISIS at the expense of civilians.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by B'smith View Post
    _____________

    I was responding to another writer on the ways in which the US got involved in Iraq in the first place but its' rather revealing that you would take offense at my disdain for "snarling Hasbarats whining about "conspiracy sites"

    What does YOUR comment have to do with Americans in Iraq?

    And

    Where did I say: "Jews run the US for their shady business"?

    Nobody honestly denies that foreign, Zionist lobbies are heavily influential in U.S. Mid-East policy. For example:

    “QUIETLY LOBBYING CONGRESS TO APPROVE THE USE OF FORCE IN IRAQ WAS ONE OF AIPAC’S SUCCESSES OVER THE PAST YEAR.” AIPAC Executive Director Howard Kohr; N.Y. SUN JAN. ’03

    If you're so desperate to slander loyal American critics of America's meddlesome Zionist lobbies, you should consider how you would feel if foreign lobbies were "Quietly lobbying" your Knesset to go to Wars not in Israel's best interest..


    You need to freshen up your inventory of Hasbara Handbook responses from "that's just a conspiracy", "that's just a Hate site" & relentlessly howling "anti Semite"......The White Flag of debate.
    Oh yeah, AIPAC takes pride in their influence on US politics. I thought Obama was going to do a better job stepping on that scorpion. I thought he was going to do more when he came right out of the shoot with his early criticism of Israeli settlement expansion. Or when he promised to run the lobbyists out of Washington, damn has he been a disappointment.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    My friend I think you need to reread what I've written. I am not advocating that we increase our attacks on ISIS at the expense of the deaths of innocents. I'm arguing exactly the opposite. I'm arguing that the rules of engagement that keep pilots from firing without authorization, rules that save civilian life are necessary and proper.

    I have not ever and do not now advocate that we kill ISIS at the expense of civilians.
    That was an unfortunate case of misunderstanding your position. I'm sure he'll correct it.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    My friend I think you need to reread what I've written. I am not advocating that we increase our attacks on ISIS at the expense of the deaths of innocents. I'm arguing exactly the opposite. I'm arguing that the rules of engagement that keep pilots from firing without authorization, rules that save civilian life are necessary and proper.

    I have not ever and do not now advocate that we kill ISIS at the expense of civilians.
    Sorry for the misunderstanding & Thanks for your clarification. The last think the U.S. needs in that region is more bad P.R.

    Unfortunately, there are still a few psychological gargoyles who believe in "Kill them all & let God sort them out" especially when it comes to Ops in the Islamic world.

    “..... most Palestinians “were born to die—we just have to help them.”
    Amiram Levin, former head of the Israeli army’s northern command


    *Re: Palestinian Mothers "They have to die and their houses should be demolished so that they cannot bear any more terrorists.”
    Ayelet Shaked Israeli MK



    Thanks

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    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    American and european lefties always seem to have these bizzare conspiracy theories where its TEH JOOOOZE fault.

    Serious question-are there Israelis who come up with this crap as well?
    Yeah, I guess. There is no country that is empty of these... 'special' folk, be sure of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by B'smith View Post
    _____________

    I was responding to another writer on the ways in which the US got involved in Iraq in the first place but its' rather revealing that you would take offense at my disdain for "snarling Hasbarats whining about "conspiracy sites"

    What does YOUR comment have to do with Americans in Iraq?

    And

    Where did I say: "Jews run the US for their shady business"?

    Nobody honestly denies that foreign, Zionist lobbies are heavily influential in U.S. Mid-East policy. For example:

    “QUIETLY LOBBYING CONGRESS TO APPROVE THE USE OF FORCE IN IRAQ WAS ONE OF AIPAC’S SUCCESSES OVER THE PAST YEAR.” AIPAC Executive Director Howard Kohr; N.Y. SUN JAN. ’03

    If you're so desperate to slander loyal American critics of America's meddlesome Zionist lobbies, you should consider how you would feel if foreign lobbies were "Quietly lobbying" your Knesset to go to Wars not in Israel's best interest..


    You need to freshen up your inventory of Hasbara Handbook responses from "that's just a conspiracy", "that's just a Hate site" & relentlessly howling "anti Semite"......The White Flag of debate.
    Your comment per usual is nothing but a bunch of bizarre anti-Semitic/anti-Israeli conspiracy theories piled up together in a single post. Notice how you never use any mainstream source to back up your nonsense? Last time it was WRMEA and globalresearch and now it's Daily Star. These conspiracy theories are all made up by deranged poor souls sitting in their mother's basement and yelling about Jews, they have nothing to do with this thread. AIPAC is a lobby group just like every other lobby group in the US, it doesn't control the US and the US administration decides its foreign policies on its own as I hoped Obama's term would have proven to your type but I guess "Hasbara Jews Zionists yadda yadda yadda" eh.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

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    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Yeah, I guess. There is no country that is empty of these... 'special' folk, be sure of that.



    Your comment per usual is nothing but a bunch of bizarre anti-Semitic/anti-Israeli conspiracy theories piled up together in a single post. Notice how you never use any mainstream source to back up your nonsense? Last time it was WRMEA and globalresearch and now it's Daily Star. These conspiracy theories are all made up by deranged poor souls sitting in their mother's basement and yelling about Jews, they have nothing to do with this thread. AIPAC is a lobby group just like every other lobby group in the US, it doesn't control the US and the US administration decides its foreign policies on its own as I hoped Obama's term would have proven to your type but I guess "Hasbara Jews Zionists yadda yadda yadda" eh.
    ------------------
    Wrong again.

    Since there's not a "Puerile, Fact-Free Personal Attack" Thread, this belongs in the Mid East, I/P threads from which you just slithered :

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle...2017-a-11.html (U.S aid to Israel to increase to $4 billion per year starting in 2017)


    My last sources used THERE were: Newsweek, Defense Tech, NBC News & US News which sent you scurrying over here with your Off Topic character slurs

    “Israel Won’t Stop Spying on the U.S. - Newsweek”
    http://www.newsweek.com/israel-wont-...49757***Cached
    E

    “Report: Israel Passes U.S. Military
    Technology to China”
    http://defensetech.org/2013/12/24/re...logy-to-china/

    “Record number of Americans living in poverty”
    Census Bureau says 43.6 million people in 2009, up near 4 million in a year
    More Americans living in poverty - US news - Life | NBC News

    “Netanyahu Has Rejected a Two-State Solution”
    Netanyahu Has Rejected a Two-State Solution - US News
    . . . . . . . . .

    My last post HERE had to do with the difficulties faced by US pilots in Iraq & collateral damage


    Now, either get On-Topic or respond to:
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle...2017-a-11.html (U.S aid to Israel to increase to $4 billion per year starting in 2017)
    Last edited by B'smith; 06-05-15 at 08:42 AM.

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