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Thread: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

  1. #131
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    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by B'smith View Post
    It's been refreshing to get "Notifications" from you rather than another snarling Hasbarat whining about "Conspiracy sites" & not so veiled accusations of being an "anti Semite". They never answer questions as they're apparently programmed to evade, insult & obfuscate. Yes, I remember he said that was an existing Israel-centric plan concocted by our treasonous gaggle of Ziono-Cons but I didn't know it had an official name......does it? Long ago, I read about JINSA's "A Clean Break; A New Strategy for Securing the Realm" which is another plan which calls for the dismantling of those countries and Balkanization of the Region for easier domination. Israel's "Oded Yinon Plan" / "Greater Israel" (1) agenda calls for the same thing. of course our gaggle of Hasbara Sock Puppets call it all a "conspiracy theory" As you already know, our Hasbarats are programmed to revile all Facts about criminal Zionist machinations as either a "conspiracy theory" from a "Hate site" used only by "anti Semites". All of the psychological gargoyles behind these grisly & chilling plans all expect America's military to do the "Heavy Lifting" while Israel reaps the benefits.............what else is new. Please let me know if the madness described by Wesley Clark has a name Many thanks (1) “The Yinon Plan, “Greater Israel”, Syria, Iraq, and ISIS: the Connection” http://www.timesofpol.com/the-yinon-...he-connection/ EXCERPT "The Atlantic, in 2008, and the U.S. military’s Armed Forces Journal, in 2006, both published widely circulated maps that closely followed the outline of the Yinon Plan. Aside from a divided Iraq, the Yinon Plan calls for a divided Lebanon, Egypt, and Syria. The Yinon Plan also calls for dissolution in North Africa and forecasts it as starting from Egypt and then spilling over into Sudan, Libya, and the rest of the region."CONTINUED (1) “The Yinon Plan and the role of the ISIS” The Yinon Plan and the role of the ISIS | The Daily Star EXCERPT “Like the western manufactured “Arab Spring” in North Africa, the ISIS project is a deception at its worst designed with hateful intentions to cause horrendous regional mayhem and destruction with military might for the creation of a “New Middle East” with Israel as the regional power in control of the region's oil, gas and water resources. The present ISIS lightning war in Iraq is the creation of an illusion to initiate the fulfillment of a pre-planned agenda of the West in close alliance with Israel to redraw the map of the entire region as the “New Middle East.” This is the Yinon Plan at work, which aims at the balkanisation of the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) Region into smaller and weaker entities or states in order to ensure the dominant position of Israel in the region and the control of its oil, gas and water resources by the US-Israel nexus.
    Did you run out of space for your ridiculous conspiracy theories in the ME forum? What does any of this "Jews run the US for their shady business" horse**** have to do with this thread, exactly?
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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  2. #132
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    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Did you run out of space for your ridiculous conspiracy theories in the ME forum? What does any of this "Jews run the US for their shady business" horse**** have to do with this thread, exactly?
    You would understand if you weren't... A JEW!!

    Dun DUN Duuuuuuuuuuuu!
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  3. #133
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    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    No, I am not advocating any such thing.

    Also, do you have a comment on the second half of my statement?
    Then you do support commanders taking civilians into consideration, even if it means that the pilot has to idle for command, which may mean that the target can't be engaged that time, right.

    The "politics" in the decision is the prudence of engaging the target given the proximity of civilians. It no doubt takes a number of people weighing in on the odanance to be deployed, what effect it may have on an adjacent fuel container, and what effect that adjacent fuel container blowing up may have on the dorm across the street with 50 Iraqi children in it. I would prefer to see people aiming before they pull the trigger.
    Last edited by Montecresto; 06-04-15 at 03:02 PM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  4. #134
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    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Then you do support commanders taking civilians into consideration, even if it means that the pilot has to idle for command, which may mean that the target can't be engaged that time, right.
    Of course you take civilians into consideration, I never said otherwise. What you fail to comprehend is that the consideration doesn't stop at the blast radius of the bomb, but continues to the threat from the target to civilians. The pilot's complaint is that the decisions aren't being made fast enough due to the absurd layers of politics in the process in the engagement.

    What you advocate would be like a police officer arriving on the scene of a school shooting, locating the shooter, calling in for authorization to engage, and then waiting while the mayor contemplates how an accidental errant bullet might effect his administration all while the shooter keeps moving from room to room shooting people.

    The "politics" in the decision is the prudence of engaging the target given the proximity of civilians. It no doubt takes a number of people weighing in on the odanance to be deployed, what effect it may have on an adjacent fuel container, and what effect that adjacent fuel container blowing up may have on the dorm across the street with 50 Iraqi children in it. I would prefer to see people aiming before they pull the trigger.
    No, the politics is the indecision that ensures any conclusion will not be timely.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

  5. #135
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    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    Of course you take civilians into consideration, I never said otherwise. What you fail to comprehend is that the consideration doesn't stop at the blast radius of the bomb, but continues to the threat from the target to civilians. The pilot's complaint is that the decisions aren't being made fast enough due to the absurd layers of politics in the process in the engagement.

    What you advocate would be like a police officer arriving on the scene of a school shooting, locating the shooter, calling in for authorization to engage, and then waiting while the mayor contemplates how an accidental errant bullet might effect his administration all while the shooter keeps moving from room to room shooting people.



    No, the politics is the indecision that ensures any conclusion will not be timely.
    As usual, you misrepresented what I advocate, which is that those responsible for target engagement follow protocol and not the pilots criticisms!!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    You ever hear of a soldier who didn't complain? Of course the guy on the ground is going to want more airstrikes. The more people on the other side that the air forces kill the less people he has to worry about. That doesn't mean it's the proper strategy. It may be - it may not be.

    I agree with each of your statements. I would point out that, while I don't know for sure, I expect ISIS has little in the way of meaningful AA capability so our pilots probably aren't in a whole lot of danger. Our ground forces on the other hand should not be involved. It's an Iraqi problem. Their military needs to step up and take care of it's own problems.
    Of course complaints don't by themselves necessarily mean something but we have something called context. In context-ALL sides are complaining about the lack of US involvement. In context, we are losing ground daily. You don't have to be Napoleon to see theres a problem.

    Lack of AA isn't the point-if something goes wrong up there and one of our pilots ends up in ISIS territory-he's going to end up in a ****ing video. You and I both know this.

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    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Too ****ING BAD. IF We're going to kill civilians, to save civilians, then stop the god damn operation, now!!!!!!
    War has pretty much always meant civilians were going to be harmed. The US highly values the lives of innocents, and goes through great pains (and deaths) to minimize collateral damage. We could fight by Russian rules and bomb entire cities. We could fight by the arguably even more brutal Arab rules-and we'd be effective-but we dont.

    But the FACT, is that war is dangerous for everyone.

    If you are advocating for a theoretical ideal that has never existed, good luck with that.

  8. #138
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    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    If only we had a president who didn't surrender to terrorists,
    Good lord. Bombing terrorists is the same thing as surrendering simply because they won't bomb them in the way that you want them to?

    What an asinine comment.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

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    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    This is a logic fail, why do you have to engage in such mental gymnastics to make things "fit"?

    Granted im no military general, here are the options that I see.

    Continue with what we are doing-subjecting our own troops to risk, while losing to ISIS.
    Withdraw completely-losing to ISIS.
    Increase our air campaign-may slow ISIS, but by definition can't win without boots on the ground.
    Place ground troops-which will increase the effectiveness of all forces, and will win if sustained.

    Thats it-unless you can explain what other options we have (and they must be logical) this is where we are at.

  10. #140
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    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    If hiding among civilians is all it takes to avoid attack, then ISIS already won this war.

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