Page 13 of 16 FirstFirst ... 31112131415 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 155

Thread: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

  1. #121
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 09:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Let's see. 10,000 dead militants divided by 4,000 airstrikes is exactly 2.5 dead militants per strike. What an impact! And this assumes the (previously) classified DoD estimate released in a loose-lip moment by Obama's Deputy Secretary of State is accurate. I think our planners were right when they said this could take years.
    If we'd just accept the fact that we need to kill one civilian for every Islamic State fighter we could knock this out in half the time!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  2. #122
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 09:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by B'smith View Post
    How many people do you think ever ask: "How did we get here, anyway?" or better yet, "How can we get out?"

    A few of America's ethical Jewish writers can help us answer: "How did we get here, anyway?"

    Those who really believe we attacked Iraq out of a heartfelt fondness for Kuwait probably have an extensive list of Bridges they think they bought.

    In addition to the machinations of JINSA's Israeli owned & operated Wolfwitz, Feith, Perle, authors of "A Clean Break; A new Strategy for Securing the Realm"

    “JEWISH WRITERS CLAIM POWERFUL ZIONISTS DROVE USA INTO MID-EAST WAR FOR SAKE OF ISRAEL”
    http://www.usa-exile.org/news/0304/13/zionistwar.html
    http://www.theweeklyinformant.com/arishavit.htm

    "The Zionists who rule Israel and the Zionists in America have been trying to trick the U.S. into a Mideast war on the side of Israel.

    " They almost succeeded when U.S. Marines were sent to Lebanon in 1982.
    The blood of the 250 American Marines who died in Lebanon is dripping from the hands of the Israeli and American Zionists.

    If more Americans are not made aware of the truth about Zionist Israel, you can be sure that, sooner or later, those atheists who claim to be God's Chosen People will trick the U.S. into a Mideast war against the Arabs who in the past have always been America's best friends.”

    Dr. Henry Makow Phd., February 10, 2003? Writer, Inventor of Board game "Scruples"

    "If the U.S. gets bogged down with heavy casualties on both sides,
    Americans are going to blame big oil and Zionism for getting them into this mess.

    Everybody knows that:

    1. The only country that fears Iraq's WMD's is Israel;

    2. American-Jewish neo-conservatives on the Defence Policy Board (Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz) planned this war in 1998 and made it Bush Administration policy;

    3. The purpose of the war is to change the balance of power in the Middle East so Israel can settle the Palestinian issue on its own terms; and

    4. Congress trembles in fear before the Israeli Lobby, "AIPAC." CONTINUED

    . . . . . . . . . . . .

    As far as the question: "How can we get out?", one strategy has been to heavily support those fighting the enemy which is in this case, ISIS.

    Other suggestions?


    Thanks
    Oh I'm very aware of the Jewish element involved in USFP in the region, seems to transcend administrations too. Paul Wolfowitz, along with Cheney, Kristol, and several other neo-conservatives put together PNAC which is explicit in USFP in the Middle East to shape the 21st century. Do you remember the policy paper that Wesley Clark shared with us back in 2003?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  3. #123
    Sage
    Gaius46's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    New York
    Last Seen
    01-15-17 @ 03:50 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    6,869

    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    You're still being disingenuous because you're focusing on one word while excluding the rest of the statement. Why are you so eager to substitute your own terminology instead of letting people make their own judgement? Yes, "many" is not definite in the sense of being "precise," but there is a "definite" difference between a word like "many" and "some" in the context in which it was used. It's a subtle difference in meaning of the word "definite," but its a difference nonetheless. Try again at explaining what the authors didn't mean.
    The article is pretty much worthless as proof that we need to be bombing ISIS more even if it means more civilian deaths.

    As evidence that we should bomb more the only quoted source is an Iraqi major. As I've pointed out before people on the ground do not have the entire picture and while from their standpoint decisions from above appear wrong when looked at in the context of the overall mission they, the folks on the ground, often are wrong.

    There are no statements from senior Iraqi policy makers or even senior military people. Just vague statements which cannot be easy proved or disproved.

    The article then goes on to point out that US experience has been that killing lots of civilians is counter productive. It angers the locals and is the cause for taking extra precautions now. That is a verifiable fact. It's one of the few that are actually in the article.

    Looked at in that light - that is objectively picking apart the arguments it does not support your claim, rather it refutes it.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

  4. #124
    Sage
    jmotivator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:02 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    13,793

    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I think you should look at post 107, and climb down off your high horse sir! Killing Islamic State fighters at the expense of knowingly killing civilians is horrific, unjust, not (suppose to be anyway) the American way, and **** the pilots and the commanders crying about this. But hopefully the decision to spare civilians when we know them to be in proximity to the target will rule the day.
    “The international alliance is not providing enough support compared with ISIS’ capabilities on the ground in Anbar,” said Maj. Muhammed al-Dulaimi, an Iraqi officer in Anbar Province, which contains Ramadi. “The U.S. airstrikes in Anbar didn’t enable our security forces to resist and confront the ISIS attacks,” he added. “We lost large territories in Anbar because of the inefficiency of the U.S.-led coalition airstrikes.”

    You assume that the caution is born of an actual threat to civilians rather than a perceived threat to civilians. The only realized threat to civilians are the ISIS fighters raping and murdering them. These Iraqi Officers and US commanders aren't calling for the targeting of civilians as you want to claim, only that the dithering over the possibility of civilian casualties has allowed ISIS to grab huge swaths of Iraqi territory and murder huge numbers of Iraqis.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

  5. #125
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 09:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Q
    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    “The international alliance is not providing enough support compared with ISIS’ capabilities on the ground in Anbar,” said Maj. Muhammed al-Dulaimi, an Iraqi officer in Anbar Province, which contains Ramadi. “The U.S. airstrikes in Anbar didn’t enable our security forces to resist and confront the ISIS attacks,” he added. “We lost large territories in Anbar because of the inefficiency of the U.S.-led coalition airstrikes.”

    You assume that the caution is born of an actual threat to civilians rather than a perceived threat to civilians. The only realized threat to civilians are the ISIS fighters raping and murdering them. These Iraqi Officers and US commanders aren't calling for the targeting of civilians as you want to claim, only that the dithering over the possibility of civilian casualties has allowed ISIS to grab huge swaths of Iraqi territory and murder huge numbers of Iraqis.
    Whoa buddy, hold on one ****ing minute there. I never said anybody was "calling for the targeting of civilians". The complaint seems to be that engaging targets is limited by the proximity of civilians to it, WHICH IS THE WAY IT OUGHT TO BE!! So I don't care if the Iraqi army doesn't like it, or if US pilots don't like it, I just hope that we continue to consider civilians when targeting Islamic fighters, and that these complainers don't get their way.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  6. #126
    Sage
    jmotivator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:02 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    13,793

    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Whoa buddy, hold on one ****ing minute there. I never said anybody was "calling for the targeting of civilians".
    And I quote: "Advocating killing civilians to stop the Islamic State is your pipe dream" ... you make the disgusting claim that those who oppose you are advocating the death of civilians.

    If telling you what you have said upsets you then I suggest being more careful with your language in the future.



    The complaint seems to be that engaging targets is limited by the proximity of civilians to it, WHICH IS THE WAY IT OUGHT TO BE!! So I don't care if the Iraqi army doesn't like it, or if US pilots don't like it, I just hope that we continue to consider civilians when targeting Islamic fighters, and that these complainers don't get their way.
    The complaint "seems to be" nothing of the sort. The complaint is that the decision making process for clearance is slow as molasses because it is being fed through political channels. Their complain is that this dithering means that they are losing good opportunities even if they get clearance because the opportunity has passed by the time the political decision has been made.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

  7. #127
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 09:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    And I quote: "Advocating killing civilians to stop the Islamic State is your pipe dream" ... you make the disgusting claim that those who oppose you are advocating the death of civilians.

    If telling you what you have said upsets you then I suggest being more careful with your language in the future.






    The complaint "seems to be" nothing of the sort. The complaint is that the decision making process for clearance is slow as molasses because it is being fed through political channels. Their complain is that this dithering means that they are losing good opportunities even if they get clearance because the opportunity has passed by the time the political decision has been made.
    To the bolded. Those are not the same. You are indeed advocating killing civilians to stop the Islamic State!!!!! I didn't say by targeting them, the target will be the Islamic State fighter standing right next to the group of civilians. Clever attempt young man, but no cigar.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  8. #128
    Sage
    jmotivator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:02 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    13,793

    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    To the bolded. Those are not the same. You are indeed advocating killing civilians to stop the Islamic State!!!!! I didn't say by targeting them, the target will be the Islamic State fighter standing right next to the group of civilians. Clever attempt young man, but no cigar.
    No, I am not advocating any such thing.

    Also, do you have a comment on the second half of my statement?
    Last edited by jmotivator; 06-04-15 at 01:29 PM.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

  9. #129
    Advisor
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Last Seen
    10-15-16 @ 10:37 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    587

    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Oh I'm very aware of the Jewish element involved in USFP in the region, seems to transcend administrations too. Paul Wolfowitz, along with Cheney, Kristol, and several other neo-conservatives put together PNAC which is explicit in USFP in the Middle East to shape the 21st century. Do you remember the policy paper that Wesley Clark shared with us back in 2003?
    It's been refreshing to get "Notifications" from you rather than another snarling Hasbarat whining about "Conspiracy sites" & not so veiled accusations of being an "anti Semite". They never answer questions as they're apparently programmed to evade, insult & obfuscate.

    Yes, I remember he said that was an existing Israel-centric plan concocted by our treasonous gaggle of Ziono-Cons but I didn't know it had an official name......does it?

    Long ago, I read about JINSA's "A Clean Break; A New Strategy for Securing the Realm" which is another plan which calls for the dismantling of those countries and Balkanization of the Region for easier domination.

    Israel's "Oded Yinon Plan" / "Greater Israel" (1) agenda calls for the same thing. of course our gaggle of Hasbara Sock Puppets call it all a "conspiracy theory" As you already know, our Hasbarats are programmed to revile all Facts about criminal Zionist machinations as either a "conspiracy theory" from a "Hate site" used only by "anti Semites".

    All of the psychological gargoyles behind these grisly & chilling plans all expect America's military to do the "Heavy Lifting" while Israel reaps the benefits.............what else is new.


    Please let me know if the madness described by Wesley Clark has a name

    Many thanks







    (1) “The Yinon Plan, “Greater Israel”, Syria, Iraq, and ISIS: the Connection”
    http://www.timesofpol.com/the-yinon-...he-connection/

    EXCERPT "The Atlantic, in 2008, and the U.S. military’s Armed Forces Journal, in 2006, both published widely circulated maps that closely followed the outline of the Yinon Plan. Aside from a divided Iraq, the Yinon Plan calls for a divided Lebanon, Egypt, and Syria. The Yinon Plan also calls for dissolution in North Africa and forecasts it as starting from Egypt and then spilling over into Sudan, Libya, and the rest of the region."CONTINUED

    (1) “The Yinon Plan and the role of the ISIS”
    The Yinon Plan and the role of the ISIS | The Daily Star
    EXCERPT “Like the western manufactured “Arab Spring” in North Africa, the ISIS project is a deception at its worst designed with hateful intentions to cause horrendous regional mayhem and destruction with military might for the creation of a “New Middle East” with Israel as the regional power in control of the region's oil, gas and water resources.

    The present ISIS lightning war in Iraq is the creation of an illusion to initiate the fulfillment of a pre-planned agenda of the West in close alliance with Israel to redraw the map of the entire region as the “New Middle East.”

    This is the Yinon Plan at work, which aims at the balkanisation of the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) Region into smaller and weaker entities or states in order to ensure the dominant position of Israel in the region and the control of its oil, gas and water resources by the US-Israel nexus.

  10. #130
    Sage
    Ahlevah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Flyoverland
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:26 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,295

    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    If we'd just accept the fact that we need to kill one civilian for every Islamic State fighter we could knock this out in half the time!
    Why don't you just accept that you're willing to trade a lot of dead civilians killed by ISIS for a considerably smaller number of civilians killed by coalition forces:

    F-18 Pilot: "There were times I had groups of ISIS fighters in my sights and couldn't get clearance to engage. They probably killed innocent people and spread evil because of my inability to kill them, it was frustrating"

    The Right Pundit: U.S. Air Force Pilots Not Being Given Permission To Engage ISIS Targets in Iraq (VIDEO REPORT)
    I'm sure you think you're a humanitarian, but in actuality you're misguided.
    Нава́льный 2018

Page 13 of 16 FirstFirst ... 31112131415 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •