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Thread: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

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    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    So some mid level Iraqi officers are critical of the air campaign. So what? What makes you think they have any kind of monopoly on truth?

    The Iraqi army needs to shut up and deal with its' problem. It's their fight. Not ours.
    Everyone is critical, even the Iranians are complaining.

    FACT-air wars don't win wars.

    FACT-even though air power is very effective in conjunction with ground forces-Obama isn't using it that way.

    FACT-if he's not going to fight, he should not be putting our troops in harms way.

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    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    A top U.S. diplomat strayed from a long-held wartime taboo Wednesday when he reported that 10,000 ISIS militants had been killed in Iraq and Syria, raising questions about how that number was compiled and whether it accurately reflected a U.S.-led coalition's success against the Islamic terror group....

    On its face, the body count seemed an attempt to show that the coalition's work — nearly 4,000 airstrikes and counting — was having an impact.

    Is U.S. Claim of 10,000 ISIS Dead Believable? - NBC News
    Let's see. 10,000 dead militants divided by 4,000 airstrikes is exactly 2.5 dead militants per strike. What an impact! And this assumes the (previously) classified DoD estimate released in a loose-lip moment by Obama's Deputy Secretary of State is accurate. I think our planners were right when they said this could take years.
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    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    How did we go from "many Iraqi commanders" mentioned in the article to "some mid level Iraqi officers"? One who's so flip with truth shouldn't be invoking it.



    They don't. There are also American officers and pilots saying the same thing. Did you bother reading the New York Times article?
    "Many" is just as vague as "some." You're going to need a better argument.

    As I've stated before the men in the field often don't have the entire picture. What they say may make sense to the reality that they perceive but it doesn't mean they are correct when the entire situation is taken into account.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Everyone is critical, even the Iranians are complaining.

    FACT-air wars don't win wars.

    FACT-even though air power is very effective in conjunction with ground forces-Obama isn't using it that way.

    FACT-if he's not going to fight, he should not be putting our troops in harms way.

    You ever hear of a soldier who didn't complain? Of course the guy on the ground is going to want more airstrikes. The more people on the other side that the air forces kill the less people he has to worry about. That doesn't mean it's the proper strategy. It may be - it may not be.

    I agree with each of your statements. I would point out that, while I don't know for sure, I expect ISIS has little in the way of meaningful AA capability so our pilots probably aren't in a whole lot of danger. Our ground forces on the other hand should not be involved. It's an Iraqi problem. Their military needs to step up and take care of it's own problems.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    "Many" is just as vague as "some." You're going to need a better argument.
    Well, you also disingenuously left out the rest of the statements, which were "Iraqi commanders" and "mid level Iraqi officers." One doesn't have to be a member of Mensa International to see a difference.

    I tell you what. Why don't we keep it simple and just stick with what the authors of the article wrote and let people come to their own conclusions instead of making word substitutions that shift the "vague" meaning. Personally, I think "many" in the context in which it was used has a definite meaning, so I had no trouble understanding what they meant:

    man·y
    ˈmenē/Submit
    determiner, pronoun, & adjective
    1.
    a large number of.
    "many people agreed with her"
    synonyms: numerous, a great/good deal of, a lot of, plenty of, countless, innumerable, scores of, crowds of, droves of, an army of, a horde of, a multitude of, a multiplicity of, multitudinous, multiple, untold; More
    noun
    1.
    the majority of people.
    "music for the many"
    synonyms: people, common people, masses, multitude, populace, public, rank and file, proletariat, mob; More

    https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...e=UTF-8#q=many
    They weren't referring to E pluribus unum here.
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    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    You're right, and just look at the way these freaks talk about civilians, dehumanizing them as "collateral damage"!!!!

    How many people do you think ever ask: "How did we get here, anyway?" or better yet, "How can we get out?"

    A few of America's ethical Jewish writers can help us answer: "How did we get here, anyway?"

    Those who really believe we attacked Iraq out of a heartfelt fondness for Kuwait probably have an extensive list of Bridges they think they bought.

    In addition to the machinations of JINSA's Israeli owned & operated Wolfwitz, Feith, Perle, authors of "A Clean Break; A new Strategy for Securing the Realm"

    “JEWISH WRITERS CLAIM POWERFUL ZIONISTS DROVE USA INTO MID-EAST WAR FOR SAKE OF ISRAEL”
    http://www.usa-exile.org/news/0304/13/zionistwar.html
    http://www.theweeklyinformant.com/arishavit.htm

    "The Zionists who rule Israel and the Zionists in America have been trying to trick the U.S. into a Mideast war on the side of Israel.

    " They almost succeeded when U.S. Marines were sent to Lebanon in 1982.
    The blood of the 250 American Marines who died in Lebanon is dripping from the hands of the Israeli and American Zionists.

    If more Americans are not made aware of the truth about Zionist Israel, you can be sure that, sooner or later, those atheists who claim to be God's Chosen People will trick the U.S. into a Mideast war against the Arabs who in the past have always been America's best friends.”

    Dr. Henry Makow Phd., February 10, 2003? Writer, Inventor of Board game "Scruples"

    "If the U.S. gets bogged down with heavy casualties on both sides,
    Americans are going to blame big oil and Zionism for getting them into this mess.

    Everybody knows that:

    1. The only country that fears Iraq's WMD's is Israel;

    2. American-Jewish neo-conservatives on the Defence Policy Board (Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz) planned this war in 1998 and made it Bush Administration policy;

    3. The purpose of the war is to change the balance of power in the Middle East so Israel can settle the Palestinian issue on its own terms; and

    4. Congress trembles in fear before the Israeli Lobby, "AIPAC." CONTINUED

    . . . . . . . . . . . .

    As far as the question: "How can we get out?", one strategy has been to heavily support those fighting the enemy which is in this case, ISIS.

    Other suggestions?


    Thanks

  7. #117
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    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Well, you also disingenuously left out the rest of the statements, which were "Iraqi commanders" and "mid level Iraqi officers." One doesn't have to be a member of Mensa International to see a difference.

    I tell you what. Why don't we keep it simple and just stick with what the authors of the article wrote and let people come to their own conclusions instead of making word substitutions that shift the "vague" meaning. Personally, I think "many" in the context in which it was used has a definite meaning, so I had no trouble understanding what they meant:



    They weren't referring to E pluribus unum here.
    Thanks for the definition but I know what the word means.
    The second definition says "majority". That's a less common usage and there's no way from the context to determine which definition the author meant. I'd suggest if the author meant >50% he would have said so since that strongly bolsters his argument.

    Many doesn't have a definite meaning. 2,000 has a definite meaning. 65% has a definite meaning. Many is vague and completely open to interpretation. Is 15% many? 20%? 60%? It's a word that's used when the author wants to slant the argument a particular way and doesn't want to be challenged on his assertion.

    And the sole officer quoted in the article is a major. A major qualifies as a "mid level officer".
    Last edited by Gaius46; 06-04-15 at 10:02 AM.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    Many doesn't have a definite meaning. 2,000 has a definite meaning. 65% has a definite meaning.
    You're still being disingenuous because you're focusing on one word while excluding the rest of the statement. Why are you so eager to substitute your own terminology instead of letting people make their own judgement? Yes, "many" is not definite in the sense of being "precise," but there is a "definite" difference between a word like "many" and "some" in the context in which it was used. It's a subtle difference in meaning of the word "definite," but its a difference nonetheless. Try again at explaining what the authors didn't mean.
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    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Yeah, and I'm not the only one saying it. Here it is put a little more euphemistically:
    Too ****ING BAD. IF We're going to kill civilians, to save civilians, then stop the god damn operation, now!!!!!!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  10. #120
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    Re: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    You've made an assumption and claimed it as fact. Par for the course with you.
    I think you should look at post 107, and climb down off your high horse sir! Killing Islamic State fighters at the expense of knowingly killing civilians is horrific, unjust, not (suppose to be anyway) the American way, and **** the pilots and the commanders crying about this. But hopefully the decision to spare civilians when we know them to be in proximity to the target will rule the day.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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