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Iraq lost 2,300 Humvees in Mosul: PM

As in ALL from the taxpayers (be it this generation or those 40 years from now)? Sure. But they arent competing dollars. Funds or the VA arent allocated based on what is allocated to foreign equipment sales or even military support. Even within budgets (for instance,the military budget) there is mandated/fenced funding and discretionary funding. Even within the VA there is mandatory and discretionary funding (and the VA received an 8% increase in funding this year).

Money is not necessarily the only problem with the VA care these days.

I use the VA healthcare system, and have had very little problems. VA benefits, however, took a long time to get it right. Not to worry, they paid retroactively to my application date. If a person has a serious healthcare issue, retroactive good health is not likely.
The ones in Phoenix that the media reported so much, I have to wonder why they insisted on using the VA if they are old enough to have access to medicare. One of my pinocle playing friends did just that. He refused to sign up for medicare, and it may have cost him a few years of his life. The VA has never been run well enough, or staffed sufficiently, to be considered top notch medicine. Surely we all know that.
 
Yeah it is 1 source.

And Bosnia? We're talking about casualties and wounded vets and you are comparing Bosnia, with what? 40-50 casualties to Iraq, with 40,000-50,000 casualties? You keep right on pointing your finger at other people who are 'partisan'. Because you sure aren't. :)

Anyway have a good night.
Whoa....We are talking about 'unnecessary wars', right? And you dont even want to THINK about the US involvement in Bosnia from 1994 to 2008 and and then back again in 2013? Why is that? OH...THATS right..... :lamo

Or do you mean to imply that it was NOT an unnecessary war? See...I thought THAT was your kick...this thing about politicians (especially those seeking deferments) taking us to war.
 
I use the VA healthcare system, and have had very little problems. VA benefits, however, took a long time to get it right. Not to worry, they paid retroactively to my application date. If a person has a serious healthcare issue, retroactive good health is not likely.
The ones in Phoenix that the media reported so much, I have to wonder why they insisted on using the VA if they are old enough to have access to medicare. One of my pinocle playing friends did just that. He refused to sign up for medicare, and it may have cost him a few years of his life. The VA has never been run well enough, or staffed sufficiently, to be considered top notch medicine. Surely we all know that.

The VA is so administratively top heavy it isnt funny. They have expanded their mission from helping the 'War Veteran' to being a catch all for anyone that has served that has no other means...and often times their spouse as well. They went from managing transitional pensions to now managing a dual retirement system with the concurrent disability pay. They have an ever expanding base of clinics, each requiring MORE administration and MORE oversight. They have gone from Mental Health Clinic with different departments to NUMEROUS specialty clinics offering lifetime benefits and services...and each of THOSE clinics have administration pools (OEF/OIF Clinic, PTSD Clinic, TBI Clinic Gulf War Vets Clinic, Vietnam Vets Clinic, Womens Center, Military Sexual Trauma Clinic, Drug and Alcohol Treatment Center, etc. (Oh yeah...and in and outpatient treatment for most of those clinics). They also have included a Homeless Veterans Center.

I think they do a pretty decent job for the most part. But the providers are overwhelmed.
 
Both the euros and Arabs are notoriously ill prepared and lack the will-if not also the strength.

If the Arabs don't want to be slaughtered by ISIS and the Europeans need Arab oil that should give them both plenty of incentive. Time for them to step up, we've played world cop since WWII. Enough is enough. Let someone else spend the money and blood to fix the ME hell hole.

I realize this is all wishful thinking by me. The MIC, the oil companies, and the war hawks in DC will never let us leave the ME. I just wish the American public smartens up and holds the politicians feet to the fire. It won't happen though.
 
then let them buy those weapons. better than having our weapons used against us. let it be known that if we're giving you weapons, we can turn that **** off when we want. probably that will mean that they won't want them. good. we need the money for other stuff anyway.

This was always the plan. Remember we gave Al-Qaida and ISIS money and weapons because they were "moderate rebels". It's no surprised that we gave them humvees too. I'm pretty sure they'll get ahold of some of the surplus Abrams tanks that our military has been begging our Congresscritters to stop sending.
 
If the Arabs don't want to be slaughtered by ISIS and the Europeans need Arab oil that should give them both plenty of incentive. Time for them to step up, we've played world cop since WWII. Enough is enough. Let someone else spend the money and blood to fix the ME hell hole.

I realize this is all wishful thinking by me. The MIC, the oil companies, and the war hawks in DC will never let us leave the ME. I just wish the American public smartens up and holds the politicians feet to the fire. It won't happen though.

You are correct in that it wont happen (we have a global economy-by definition so does the world). We will have to protect commerce.

Heres my question-since we both acknowledge this reality-why not do something about it?
 
You are correct in that it wont happen (we have a global economy-by definition so does the world). We will have to protect commerce.

Heres my question-since we both acknowledge this reality-why not do something about it?

I'm just tired of the American blood and the trillions being wasted in a hell hole. In an area that will never be at peace. We're in a war that we can not win. We can hold them off, we can put more boots on the ground, calm things down a little. But we can't win, as soon as we leave, or even let-up it will start again.

It's a waste of men and money.
 
I'm just tired of the American blood and the trillions being wasted in a hell hole. In an area that will never be at peace. We're in a war that we can not win. We can hold them off, we can put more boots on the ground, calm things down a little. But we can't win, as soon as we leave, or even let-up it will start again.

It's a waste of men and money.

I understand your view, and empathize with it-but the world without a US presence will be worse.
 
The answer is obvious. We need eternal, neverending war.

War has been nearly constant throughout history, even prehistory. Mankind fights over resources, pride, religion-its human nature. Ironically its the post WW2 peace, thats made things seem like they are bad now. History tells a different story.

How you feel about war (understandably) is not consistent with the reality.

I recognize this fact and want to make the best of it.
 
We sold the vehicles to the Iraqis, so no Ameeican tax dollars were lost. Plenty of Iraqi tax dollars were, though.

Tax money well spent. :doh

Iraq lost 2,300 Humvees in Mosul: PM | News , Middle East | THE DAILY STAR

Iraqi security forces lost 2,300 Humvee armored vehicles when ISIS overran the northern city of Mosul, Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi said on Sunday. "In the collapse of Mosul, we lost a lot of weapons," Abadi said in an interview with Iraqiya state TV. "We lost 2,300 Humvees in Mosul alone." While the exact price of the vehicles varies depending on how they are armored and equipped, it is clearly a hugely expensive loss that has boosted ISIS's capabilities. Last year, the State Department approved a possible sale to Iraq of 1,000 Humvees with increased armor, machineguns, grenade launchers, other gear and support that was estimated to cost $579 million. Clashes began in Mosul, Iraq's second city, late on June 9, 2014, and Iraqi forces lost it the following day to ISIS, which spearheaded an offensive that overran much of the country's Sunni Arab heartland.

The militants gained ample arms, ammunition and other equipment when multiple Iraqi divisions fell apart in the country's north, abandoning gear and shedding uniforms in their haste to flee. ISIS has used captured Humvees, which were provided to Iraq by the United States, in subsequent fighting, rigging some with explosives for suicide bombings. Iraqi security forces backed by Shiite militias have regained significant ground from ISIS in Diyala and Salaheddin provinces north of Baghdad. But that momentum was slashed in mid-May when ISIS overran Ramadi, the capital of Anbar province, west of Baghdad, where Iraqi forces had held out against militants for more than a year.
 
and what has been said can't be unsaid.

Surely they weren't lying. Meaning Iraq was well on its way to recovery when those words were spoken. Then...something drastic happened.
 
Surely they weren't lying. Meaning Iraq was well on its way to recovery when those words were spoken. Then...something drastic happened.

Oh, sure. I'm positive that Iraq must have been well on its way to recovery, or the politicians wouldn't have said so. If you can't count on what the president and VP say, who can you believe?
 
War has been nearly constant throughout history, even prehistory. Mankind fights over resources, pride, religion-its human nature. Ironically its the post WW2 peace, thats made things seem like they are bad now. History tells a different story.

How you feel about war (understandably) is not consistent with the reality.

I recognize this fact and want to make the best of it.
Just because there's always been war doesn't mean they need to be fought stupidly. The wars we've been engaged in since Vietnam have all been poorly planned except the Gulf War and Bosnia. Every single one since then have all been poorly thought through. Even the initial successes in Libya were squandered by poor planning.

Surely you've heard of the phrase "pick your battles". I think our government officials need required reading of The Art Of War and 1984. The mistakes our government is repeatedly making in the Middle East are inexcusable and ignorance is no excuse.
 
Oh, sure. I'm positive that Iraq must have been well on its way to recovery, or the politicians wouldn't have said so. If you can't count on what the president and VP say, who can you believe?
Dood made 17 trips there and traveled all over the countryside. He has hung the reputation of this administration on the place. What...you are calling the VP a liar?
 
No we weren't.

Thats a ridiculous manufactured narrative.

Of Bush lied so did prominent Democrats going all the way back to the late 90s when they claimed Saddam not only had WMD but had plans to go Nuclear

And how did that turn out then? Opps.

Also, we had no plan for success under Bush, just like Obama. Peas in a pod. Party players interested only in maintaining government dominance.
 
And just what plan, pray tell, do y'all have, in your preternatural wisdom? Appeasement? Sticking your heads in the sand? More apologizing by President Limpwrist to all those Muslims that this horrible country's shameful provocations have made feel all icky?

I'd start with not throwing rocks at the hornets nest. Less you have a plan for success, then hucking rocks shouldn't be on the table.
 
I'd start with not throwing rocks at the hornets nest. Less you have a plan for success, then hucking rocks shouldn't be on the table.

In other words, you would do nothing at all to fight Muslim jihadists. Just let them keep beheading, raping, taking over territory, and wait for the day when they attack us here again. That is only a plan for defeat--but it sounds so reasonable and peaceful.
 
In other words, you would do nothing at all to fight Muslim jihadists. Just let them keep beheading, raping, taking over territory, and wait for the day when they attack us here again. That is only a plan for defeat--but it sounds so reasonable and peaceful.

Defeat huh? So emboldening the terrorists, destabilizing governments and allowing them a firmer foothold, that's the plan to success, huh? This mess wouldn't be as bad as it is today if we didn't go into Iraq in the first place, and that's just a fact. So y'all did worse that doing nothing.

No plan, no action. It's as simple as that.
 
Defeat huh? So emboldening the terrorists, destabilizing governments and allowing them a firmer foothold, that's the plan to success, huh? This mess wouldn't be as bad as it is today if we didn't go into Iraq in the first place, and that's just a fact. So y'all did worse that doing nothing.

No plan, no action. It's as simple as that.

No, that is not a fact. It is propaganda, and I do not agree with any of it. What y'all call "simple" is only simple-minded.

It is six years of your president's appeasement of Islamic jihadists that has emboldened them. He is the one who has spent six years kissing the feet of the vile Islamist mutts who rule Iran. It is his shameful kowtowing that has encouraged them to try to expand their influence in Syria and Iraq, which revived the Sunni jihadism so many American servicemen died to purge from Iraq. Your president's campaign against ISIS is so puny and weak-willed that those jihadists recently were able to capture Ramadi. That is a city of a half-million or more, only seventy miles from Baghdad--and several hundred U.S. servicemen died to secure it not many years ago. They died in vain, thanks to President Pinprick.

It is this anti-Semitic, America-loathing Marxist himself who has been destabilizing governments in the Arab world. Libya is a jihadist hellhole today because Barack Hussein Obama saw fit to start a private war against Moammar Khaddafi. Egypt is only as stable as it is today because the efforts of Barack Hussein Obama and his disgraceful Secretary of State to install the Muslim Brotherhood candidate, Mohammed Morsi, soon failed when the Egyptian people ousted Morsi, as they had Mubarak before him. Iraq is in chaos today because Barack Hussein Obama lacked the will to leave behind a U.S. force to keep the relatively peaceful, stable conditions which--as Obama himself boasted in his Fort Bragg speech of December 14, 2011--the U.S. had finally succeeded in achieving. He cut and ran, using a status-of-forces agreement as a convenient fig leaf to cover his own lack of nerve and leadership.
 
No, that is not a fact. It is propaganda, and I do not agree with any of it. What y'all call "simple" is only simple-minded.

It is six years of your president's appeasement of Islamic jihadists that has emboldened them. He is the one who has spent six years kissing the feet of the vile Islamist mutts who rule Iran. It is his shameful kowtowing that has encouraged them to try to expand their influence in Syria and Iraq, which revived the Sunni jihadism so many American servicemen died to purge from Iraq. Your president's campaign against ISIS is so puny and weak-willed that those jihadists recently were able to capture Ramadi. That is a city of a half-million or more, only seventy miles from Baghdad--and several hundred U.S. servicemen died to secure it not many years ago. They died in vain, thanks to President Pinprick.

It is this anti-Semitic, America-loathing Marxist himself who has been destabilizing governments in the Arab world. Libya is a jihadist hellhole today because Barack Hussein Obama saw fit to start a private war against Moammar Khaddafi. Egypt is only as stable as it is today because the efforts of Barack Hussein Obama and his disgraceful Secretary of State to install the Muslim Brotherhood candidate, Mohammed Morsi, soon failed when the Egyptian people ousted Morsi, as they had Mubarak before him. Iraq is in chaos today because Barack Hussein Obama lacked the will to leave behind a U.S. force to keep the relatively peaceful, stable conditions which--as Obama himself boasted in his Fort Bragg speech of December 14, 2011--the U.S. had finally succeeded in achieving. He cut and ran, using a status-of-forces agreement as a convenient fig leaf to cover his own lack of nerve and leadership.

I didn't vote for Obama, he's the same as Bush and I didn't want another Bush.

There's no propaganda. How long ago did we start this war? Neigh 14 years, and in 14 years we've only gone backwards. Sorry that reality isn't something you want to acknowledge, but it doesn't change reality.
 
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