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Thread: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

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    Re: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    They probably will.
    Probably will? Lol. You're ignoring the real world, again. They will and then we'll get 50 years of complaining about the evil gay conspiracy. This is why opinion polls are so important. They show what politicians will and will not be able to do. 60% of popular opinion (which doesn't mean the majority of voters in every state or many states) simply don't support further attacks on the gay community. People now have gay soldier friends, they have gay sons, gay daughters, they have gay lawyers, gay role models. Any belief that politicians on their side (please pretend you're not a right winger) aren't aware of this and tailor their message to suit that type of voter is in denial and getting closer to delusional with every passing day. Entertaining that final state of delusion isn't something I'm down to do.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Probably will? Lol. You're ignoring the real world, again. They will and then we'll get 50 years of complaining about the evil gay conspiracy. This is why opinion polls are so important. They show what politicians will and will not be able to do. 60% of popular opinion (which doesn't mean the majority of voters in every state or many states) simply don't support further attacks on the gay community. People now have gay soldier friends, they have gay sons, gay daughters, they have gay lawyers, gay role models. Any belief that politicians on their side (please pretend you're not a right winger) aren't aware of this and tailor their message to suit that type of voter is in denial and getting closer to delusional with every passing day. Entertaining that final state of delusion isn't something I'm down to do.
    They probably will. Yes.

    Opinion polls dont mean a thing. Polls are DESIGNED to present expected results (notice how many people flip out when the word 'Rasmussen' or 'Gallup' is used?). The only poll that has any validity is the actual ballot. Hopefully...it wont come to that. If it does...well...the good news is, it should be decisive...right?

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    Re: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    They probably will. Yes.

    Opinion polls dont mean a thing. Polls are DESIGNED to present expected results (notice how many people flip out when the word 'Rasmussen' or 'Gallup' is used?). The only poll that has any validity is the actual ballot. Hopefully...it wont come to that. If it does...well...the good news is, it should be decisive...right?
    There isn't a single politician out there who doesn't look at opinion polls when deciding what they're going to do. 60% of the public saying that they oppose any further gay marriage bans, courts removing gay marriage bans, and increasing legislative measures to offer protections to gay marriages? That paints a picture. How do I now? How many gay marriage bans have been attempted as of late? Any of them serious? No? How many politicians want to run on gay marriage ban like Bush did in '06? None? People simply aren't interested in the topic anymore. To believe that they'd suddenly turn around and support a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage is absurd and not worthy of anyone's time.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

    Older Republicans refuse to admit that younger Republicans are NOT as socially conservative as they are, and are NOT religiously conservative as they are. Younger Republicans care about the Fed debt, they care about the government being fiscally responsible, they care about jobs, their schooling and school debt.

    The social issues that the GOP, and their mouthpieces on the radio and TV use to scare the older GOP voters into voting Republican just aren't that important to the younger Republicans.

    Right NOW the older people still control the GOP because they do most of the voting. But by around 2020 the GOP better change their tune or they will become nothing more than a local, regional party.
    "The school is the last expenditure upon which America should be willing to economize."~F.D.R.
    "Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain at one end you lose at the other."~Mark Twain

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    Re: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    There isn't a single politician out there who doesn't look at opinion polls when deciding what they're going to do. 60% of the public saying that they oppose any further gay marriage bans, courts removing gay marriage bans, and increasing legislative measures to offer protections to gay marriages? That paints a picture. How do I now? How many gay marriage bans have been attempted as of late? Any of them serious? No? How many politicians want to run on gay marriage ban like Bush did in '06? None? People simply aren't interested in the topic anymore. To believe that they'd suddenly turn around and support a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage is absurd and not worthy of anyone's time.
    38 of them were already passed (Including PR). Kinda silly to attempt new ones...right? And its not like they have abandoned their state passed legislation. Thats why the Supreme Court is acting.

    Public opinion polls are worthless. They say what people want them to say. BUT AGAIN...if you are right you should EMBRACE the amendment option. Nothing will so completely confirm your beliefs about acceptance of your lifestyle choice as a resounding NO in response to an amendment initiative. Maybe THEN the matter will be settled. I only wish it were so easy for the abortion issue. Its time for all of these things to be settled.

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    Re: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Those that are claiming Santorum is wrong are themselves 'wrong', but really...they are just partisan ideologues being snarky.
    It's funny to see those on here ridicule what he says, as if he doesn't know what he is talking about, then come up with absolutely nothing to back up their own opinion.
    "We have met the enemy and they are ours..." -- Oliver Hazard Perry
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    Re: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    It's funny to see those on here ridicule what he says, as if he doesn't know what he is talking about, then come up with absolutely nothing to back up their own opinion.
    Its obvious he knows what he is talking about AND its obvious he is correct. I hope it doesnt come to that but I wont be surprised if it happens.

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    Re: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    38 of them were already passed (Including PR). Kinda silly to attempt new ones...right? And its not like they have abandoned their state passed legislation. Thats why the Supreme Court is acting.

    Public opinion polls are worthless. They say what people want them to say. BUT AGAIN...if you are right you should EMBRACE the amendment option. Nothing will so completely confirm your beliefs about acceptance of your lifestyle choice as a resounding NO in response to an amendment initiative. Maybe THEN the matter will be settled. I only wish it were so easy for the abortion issue. Its time for all of these things to be settled.
    Lol, you're getting more desperate in your attempts. From hypothetical, to a red herring? "The amendment" option only means a lot for one side. The side trying to use it to actively shut down attempts to legalize gay marriage. For the other side, it's the courts - you know, the people who have decided constitutionality for most of this country's history - that matter. I'm actually so confident that there is no support for such a thing that I can confidently say that my contention is proven by the fact that there are no constitutional conventions being called for such a thing. Furthermore, even when there was enough support for it (somewhere in the early to mid 00s), politicians saw a changing trend in public opinion and decided to forgo the idea entirely. That's literally what we are seeing here today.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 06-01-15 at 02:21 PM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Lol, you're getting more desperate in your attempts. From hypothetical, to a red herring? "The amendment" option only means a lot for one side. The side trying to use it to actively shut down attempts to legalize gay marriage. For the other side, it's the courts - you know, the people who have decided constitutionality for most of this country's history - that matter. I'm actually so confident that there is no support for such a thing that I con confidently say that my contention is proven by the fact that there are no constitutional conventions being called for such a thing. Furthermore, even when there was enough support for it (somewhere in the early to mid 00s), politicians saw a changing trend in public opinion and decided to forgo the idea entirely. That's literally what we are seeing here today.
    The only thing that is 'funny' is your desperate need to make this a conflict. I dont care.
    BUT...
    The facts is that MOST of those states that were forced by a federal judge to alter their state practices occurred withing the last 1-3 years. Keep in mind...these are states that passed their laws with as much as 86% of the popular votes in the states. Most didnt just barely pass...most passed the popular vote by a landslide.

    So...again. We will see. If it comes down to it, then the people will again be given the opportunity to vote on it. And THAT should testify to your position that there is overwhelming support now for you.

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    Re: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The only thing that is 'funny' is your desperate need to make this a conflict.
    Says the guy who doesn't care but took issue with people saying that public opinion will never let this fly. We get it man, you're cool and nonchalant about your political opinions. Here, I'll leave you with a nice contrast:

    Before:

    Public opinion of same-sex marriage in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    A USA Today/Gallup Poll conducted May 7–10, 2009, however, found support at only 40%, lower than in 2003, with 57% opposed.[61] According to this poll, 48% of Americans feel that society would change for the worse if same-sex marriage were legalized, the same percentage as a 2003 poll.[62] The poll asked: "Which comes closest to your view? Gay couples should be allowed to legally marry. OR, Gay couples should be allowed to form civil unions but not legally marry. OR, There should be no legal recognition of a gay couple's relationship."

    ...

    A poll taken June 22, 2006 by Rasmussen Reports asked "Should marriage be defined in terms of a union between a man and a woman? Or should marriage be defined as a union between any two people including same sex couples?" 68% replied that "marriage is between man and woman", 29% said marriage "between any two people" and 4% were "not sure".[70]
    Then...

    Public opinion of same-sex marriage in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    An August Associated Press/National Constitution Center poll found 52% agreed that the federal government should give legal recognition to marriages between couples of the same sex, an increase from 46% in 2009. 46% disagreed, compared to 53% in 2009.[7]

    An August CNN/Opinion Research Poll showed that 49% of respondents thought gays and lesbians do have a constitutional right to get married and have their marriage recognized by law as valid, and 52% thought gays and lesbians should have that right.[53]
    Now:

    Public opinion of same-sex marriage in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    A February–March 2015 Wall Street Journal poll found that 59% of Americans favor same-sex marriage.[14]

    A January–February 2015 Human Rights Campaign poll found that 60% of Americans favor same-sex marriage, while 37% oppose. The same poll also found that 46% of respondents say they know a same-sex couple who have gotten married.[15]

    A February 12–15, 2015 CNN/ORC poll found that 63% of Americans believe same-sex marriage is a constitutional right, while 36% oppose.[16]
    Put that next to measures (public and private) to become more welcoming of gays. Do you REALLY believe anybody on the right has the star power to turn that sort of tide with gay marriage? An issue that doesn't compare to other cleavages like racial equality? Get serious.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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