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Thread: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

  1. #61
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    Re: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    The guy who doesn't care always seems to have a hypothetical gay marriage and gay marriage issues that he feels nobody has ever thought of (well, people have, they just find it absurd). Is that your shtick? This persona that doesn't really care about an issue but always seems to have some illogical hypothetical that tries but fails to get across its nonpoint? We get it. You feel that a constitutional amendment today has enough support because of laws passed on average 10 years ago when entire campaigns could be run on the gays coming to get you. The real world, however, has changed a bit in a decade even if your understanding of these issues hasn't. The reality is that I am so sure that SCOTUS will rule in favor of gay marriage advocates that I simply refuse to play your game of "what if?". It's not going to happen VanceMack, the right will lose on this issue and we'll get 50 years worth of whining about evil activist judges and how liberals are destroying society because da gays can get married.
    Its a legitimate hypothetical. Why are you so afraid of answering it?

    We'll see once the Supreme Court rules. If it rules in favor of gay marriage, as I presume it will, then I have no doubt there will be many people that will clamor for a Constitutional Amendment. It should be evident very quickly if the movement has traction or not. Your continued frothy state and hatred notwithstanding...I wont support it and truly will not care less gay marriage is passed. As I have stated before and has been proven to date...if it is made legal, the sun will still come out, life will still go on. The only one spun up here is...well...you.

    Wait...is THAT it? Is it because it DOESNT piss me off that has you so tightly wound? Thats hilarious!

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    Re: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

    Quote Originally Posted by Paperview View Post
    There have been a whole lot of polls -- Gallup has been polling the question for decades.

    Plus quite a few more. All -- All show a marked uptrend to place it now in majority status.

    These kind of skewed polls believers are wayyyy out of touch. Reminds me of Rove and the wishful connies on election night a few years back.
    Yes, yes, and folks have been compiling statistics for much longer, and still stats are used to lie. Again, it's all in who you ask and how you ask and sometimes what answer they EXPECT. Not to mention who you can get to take your poll.

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    Re: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Its a legitimate hypothetical.
    There is no such thing as a legitimate hypothetical that starts out completely dependent on views from 10 years ago and ignores modern opinions on the issue. That's a fallacy. Keep pretending you've got anything other than a fallacy on your hands.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

    Quote Originally Posted by Paperview View Post
    Here's another tidbit:
    The majority of the states that put it on the ballot - voted 10-15 years ago.

    Attitudes change.


    The last 4 times Same-sex Marriage was on a General Election Ballot (2012), Marriage Equality won in all 4 cases. This shows the attitude change from years ago. As a matter of fact one of the States that voted in Marriage Equality was a State that had voted in discrimination just 3 years earlier (2009).*

    *Hattip again to WW
    As I mentioned, I'm very okay with the people of any state doing this. However, part of the "trend" you are seeing is people just flat out being boxed into a corner by court decisions and giving up. The courts simply will not allow them to vote otherwise, for when they do their vote is nullified by the court.

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    Re: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    How nice and I'm perfectly okay with that. Then there should be no need for the SCOTUS to be deciding a state's issue as it is. Just like medical or recreational marijuana. If that's a priority for you, then move to a state that allows it.

    And btw, Santorum would never be my choice for POTUS, nor would I vote for him for dogcatcher.
    There shouldn't be a need, but there is. Unfortunately, my fellow Americans took it upon themselves to vote against someone else's freedom, (either directly or indirectly via legislation) based on nothing other than a moral disapproval of that freedom. It's sad, and fundamentally unamerican. But because they did that, there is a need for SCOTUS to step in. Because my fellow Americans violated the constitution when they did that.

    Santorum's quote is just lip service. He is technically correct, there is never a "final word" on anything because any law can change. Even the constitution can change. But it is still just lip service to the religious right because nobody is really delusional enough to believe this is going to go back to the way it was. Santorum knows full well there will never again be enough votes in congress or enough votes on a ballot to reverse the decision we all know SCOTUS is about to make.
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    Re: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    There is no such thing as a legitimate hypothetical that starts out completely dependent on views from 10 years ago and ignores modern opinions on the issue. That's a fallacy. Keep pretending you've got anything other than a fallacy on your hands.
    The hypothetical does NOT start out on 10 years ago. It is in fact what was presented in the OP. The 'change' would be to the status quo. And your refusal to answer such a direct and honest question speaks volumes. You WOULD NOT expect the pro gay marriage side to just quit and accept it if the SCOTUS ruling were in favor of the states right to choose.

    For the record...if the SCOTUS does rule in your favor, I want you to know I will be happy for you. Truly.

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    Re: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    That's a politician providing himself cover from the riots that may ensure from hard-line Right-Wing Evangelicals...you know, those people who are suppose to stand up for individual liberty except when the rules covering their version of morality trumps individual liberty on religious grounds. He's basically saying he'd stand out of the way if people who disagree with gay marriage as he does stand up against it. It's kind of like what happened during the lead-up to the Civil War. There were plenty of people who stood of against changing "their southern way of life" despite the fact that their way infringed on the rights of human being to freely exist and no longer be treated as property. Granted, gay marriage doesn't reach that same standard of living, but the rational behind "changing the way things are into something I don't like" remains the same.
    Yep, that's kinda' like a politician saying: "I'm against abortion, but I respect other's decisions"!

    Well, doesn't that mean your public policy is 'pro choice'?


    But it's not the State Supreme Courts rulings that Santorum, Huckabee or Carson are advocating defiance against. It's the actually Supreme Court of the United States, the last arbiter of justice in our land. If you're not going to respect their judgement and instead seek to over turn such unpopular decisions using civil disobedience to do it, then you may as well be calling for anarchy.
    Exactly!

    And who should more respect the laws & Constitution of the United States, than those elected to office sworn-in by taking the Oath of Allegiance?
    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

    The 10 Commandments of Logic - (Courtesy of Abbazorkzog Blog)

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    Re: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Its a legitimate hypothetical. Why are you so afraid of answering it?

    We'll see once the Supreme Court rules. If it rules in favor of gay marriage, as I presume it will, then I have no doubt there will be many people that will clamor for a Constitutional Amendment. It should be evident very quickly if the movement has traction or not. ...
    Dude. When they tried it and tried it over and over -- they couldn't even get the votes to push it forward.

    Federal_Marriage_Amendment






    There was much less support for SSM then. It's not going to reverse.

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    Re: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

    Quote Originally Posted by Paperview View Post
    Dude. When they tried it and tried it over and over -- they couldn't even get the votes to push it forward.

    Federal_Marriage_Amendment






    There was much less support for SSM then. It's not going to reverse.
    WHen it has been tried in the past, there wasnt a Supreme Court decision standing against the rights of the states.

    BUT...we shall see. In case you have missed it..I have stated several times now...I would hope that they accept the ruling and we move forward. But that does not remove the individuals RIGHT to pursue it.

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    Re: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The hypothetical does NOT start out on 10 years ago.
    It does start out with views from 10 years ago. The majority of these gay marriage bans were enacted 10 years ago when one could still run a campaign on hating gays and it would work. The reality today is much different. States have had time to come up with solutions that aren't affected by recent rulings. They haven't. It's simply not all that profitable to attack the gays anymore. People have kids who are coming out of the closet now and they are being forced to change their views as more people are less and less afraid of being openly gay. This is the world we now live in VM and your continued tacit denial of it just makes it all the more enjoyable. I don't answer hypotheticals based on flawed "what ifs?!"
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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