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Thread: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

  1. #21
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    Re: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

    Quote Originally Posted by prometeus View Post
    And you are outright hilarious.

    No, it is because it is the right thing to do.

    And slavery was legal. Does that mean it should have remained so?

    What is it exactly that slave holders did and with what success?

    See now why your post is hilarious?

    Yea, you got that wrong too. At least you are consistent.
    Baby, I'm a ****ing laugh riot.

    All of those things you discussed imply change. Now...I know you believe acceptance of homoesxuality and gay marriage is right and a positive evolution. Others disagree. And those that disagree will have every right to continue to fight against it.

    BTW...you will note I used the word 'they'. I wont be fighting it. I am personally opposed to gay marriage (consider it just like Obamas prior to him shilling for campaign cash in 2012) but am really looking forward to the SCOTUS decision and think they should have taken it on a decade ago. I disagree with abortion (I kind of have an Obama-like stance on THAT as well) but dont think it should be overturned either. So...see how ****ing stupid your own prejudice and bias is?

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    Re: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    An Ammendment would do it. But the better way is to abolish state interference in marriage and family. I suspect the Supreme Court would not stand in the way.
    Neither is going to legitimately happen. There wasn't support for an Amendment 10 years ago, and support for same sex marriage has at least doubled since then and continues to rise, while opposition continues to dwindle. And most people do not really want to do away with marriage being legally recognized. Even the bill in Louisiana (?) that changed marriage licenses to marriage contracts does not actually do away with marriage. It is a stupid attempt to try to circumvent the likely outcome of the same sex marriage case the SCOTUS is hearing now.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #23
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    Re: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    When circumstances change and old instruments become redundant, expensive and fail? Well you keep them around for nostalgia till you trash zhem.
    Marriage isn't expensive though, especially not if a person realistically looks at how much it would cost to not have marriage legally recognized, either from the government's standpoint or the standpoint of most individual couples. Both benefit from having marriage legally recognized, even financially.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #24
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    Re: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    That may be true for some. But as it is, we have changed a number of factors in society that have led to a breakdown of the sociological instrument as a means of guaranteeing reproduction. As it is extremely expensive as instruments go we need to cut the costs and use them more efficiently. This is not yet as pressing here as in Europe or Japan, but it is becoming so. What makes it difficult is the amount of motherhood and apple pie is connected with it and the amount of subsidies have been stitched onto its coat flaps. But that doesn't make the instrument better. It only makes it worse and more difficult to get rid of. It's like kicking a bad habit like opium.
    It's true for many. Most people in the US are or want to be married, legally.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

    The gay marriage issue has reached SCOTUS, gay marriage bans have been defeated over and over in different courts, DOMA is dead, DADT is dead, but somehow the anti-SSM side will gather up enough support for a constitutional amendment banning marriage. Oy vey. Talk about listening to too much Bon Jovi and hanging on to a prayer.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomalism View Post
    I'm not sure Mr. Santorum understands how this works.
    Actually, it seems he odes. I'm no fan of Santorum and routinely rip him, but in a general sense I agree with him here and he's right.

    The Supreme Court is a CO-EQUAL part of Government. What's more, they cannot MAKE law, they can only interprit what is already there.

    IE, they can find that the current laws regarding marriage are unconstitutional, but they can't pass a law stating you must allow gay marriage. While the end result may seem the same, it's not exactly.

    In a general hypothetical sense, Santorum is right. The SCOTUS ruling on something is not somehow the "final word". Theoritically, the laws could be rewritten in a different fashion that the congress believes is in line with the constitution, and it would go back into effect. It would/could be challenged, and then the SCOTUS would need to decide on that particular law if it's constitutional or not. Another method that the other branches can take is to actually attempt and pass a constitutional amendment. Difficult, but feasible.

    I don't like Santorum that much, but in this he's correct...the SCOTUS is not king, it is not the final word, it is a co-equal branch. The other branches do have methods of checks and balances that it can place upon the court, just as the court serves as one as well. That's the entire purpoes of the three co-equal branches. The other branches absolutely are within their right, and their intended purpose, to push back if they feel the SCOTUS over steps. Now I don't agree with some of the dirtier methods of pushing back...like one state's threat to withhold funding. But I have no issue with attempts to pass constitutional amendments, or even passing new law that the legislators believe adheres to the constitution.

  7. #27
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    Re: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Actually, it seems he odes. I'm no fan of Santorum and routinely rip him, but in a general sense I agree with him here and he's right.

    The Supreme Court is a CO-EQUAL part of Government. What's more, they cannot MAKE law, they can only interprit what is already there.

    IE, they can find that the current laws regarding marriage are unconstitutional, but they can't pass a law stating you must allow gay marriage. While the end result may seem the same, it's not exactly.

    In a general hypothetical sense, Santorum is right. The SCOTUS ruling on something is not somehow the "final word". Theoritically, the laws could be rewritten in a different fashion that the congress believes is in line with the constitution, and it would go back into effect. It would/could be challenged, and then the SCOTUS would need to decide on that particular law if it's constitutional or not. Another method that the other branches can take is to actually attempt and pass a constitutional amendment. Difficult, but feasible.

    I don't like Santorum that much, but in this he's correct...the SCOTUS is not king, it is not the final word, it is a co-equal branch. The other branches do have methods of checks and balances that it can place upon the court, just as the court serves as one as well. That's the entire purpoes of the three co-equal branches. The other branches absolutely are within their right, and their intended purpose, to push back if they feel the SCOTUS over steps. Now I don't agree with some of the dirtier methods of pushing back...like one state's threat to withhold funding. But I have no issue with attempts to pass constitutional amendments, or even passing new law that the legislators believe adheres to the constitution.
    I agree with all of this, but it still doesn't mean it is reasonable to believe that new laws that restrict marriage in a way to keep same sex couples from getting married is likely to pass or last, and a constitutional amendment doesn't have the support. There wasn't support for it 10 years ago, and there is probably half as much or less now.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #28
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    Re: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I agree with all of this, but it still doesn't mean it is reasonable to believe that new laws that restrict marriage in a way to keep same sex couples from getting married is likely to pass or last, and a constitutional amendment doesn't have the support. There wasn't support for it 10 years ago, and there is probably half as much or less now.
    I agree with the later part. But it seemed Santorum was being mocked by some over the very generalized notion that the court isn't the "final word" or that there's nothing that could really be done. There's a difference between something being unlikely to be done and something simly being unable to be done. Santorum is correct in terms of the capacity of what he's talking about. The feasability of it in THIS INSTANCE is extremely low, but the general premise is correct.

  9. #29
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    Re: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    The gay marriage issue has reached SCOTUS, gay marriage bans have been defeated over and over in different courts, DOMA is dead, DADT is dead, but somehow the anti-SSM side will gather up enough support for a constitutional amendment banning marriage. Oy vey. Talk about listening to too much Bon Jovi and hanging on to a prayer.
    I DO NOT think it should be pursued once the SCOTUS rules...BUT...prior to judges intervening, 37 states had some form of law or Constitutional Amendment against gay marriage and MOST of those were passed by HUGE majorities. IF it were to be pursued, the number of states required to ratify the amendment would be 38, and the federal judges wouldnt come into play. An amendment (especially one put to an actual vote of the people) is probably not as unlikely a prospect as you believe it to be.

    That being said...like the Anti-abortion movement...once the SCOTUS decision is levied, I think its time for all parties to move forward.

    Oh...wait...scary thought. What if (in the extremely unlikely possibility) the SCOTUS rules AGAINST gay marriage and FOR states rights to decide? Would you then advocate that all gay marriage advocates lay down their arms and accept the decision with grace?

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    Re: Rick Santorum says supreme court's gay marriage decision not 'final word'

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I DO NOT think it should be pursued once the SCOTUS rules...BUT...prior to judges intervening, 37 states had some form of law or Constitutional Amendment against gay marriage and MOST of those were passed by HUGE majorities. IF it were to be pursued, the number of states required to ratify the amendment would be 38, and the federal judges wouldnt come into play. An amendment (especially one put to an actual vote of the people) is probably not as unlikely a prospect as you believe it to be.

    That being said...like the Anti-abortion movement...once the SCOTUS decision is levied, I think its time for all parties to move forward.

    Oh...wait...scary thought. What if (in the extremely unlikely possibility) the SCOTUS rules AGAINST gay marriage and FOR states rights to decide? Would you then advocate that all gay marriage advocates lay down their arms and accept the decision with grace?
    I know this was rhetorical, but still funny, none the less.

    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
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