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Thread: Black Sea. Remain Unprovoked.

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    Black Sea. Remain Unprovoked.

    “The crew of the ship acted provocatively and aggressively, which concerned the operators of monitoring stations and ships of the Black Sea Fleet”
    Russian military jets and US destroyer clash in Black Sea 'posing danger to stability' - Europe - World - The Independent

    I don't like such incidents.
    Really - neither we nor russians want such things to happen. One button pressed due to unclear command or one guy loosing his nerves may lead to irreversible things.
    It's not for the first time, some of you may remember USS Donald Cook "deal".
    Wargame is an ideal way to show military strength, I'm not an anti-war moron, just a realist.

    Do we really need Russia to be our enemy?

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    Re: Black Sea. Remain Unprovoked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Parker View Post
    Russian military jets and US destroyer clash in Black Sea 'posing danger to stability' - Europe - World - The Independent

    I don't like such incidents.
    Really - neither we nor russians want such things to happen. One button pressed due to unclear command or one guy loosing his nerves may lead to irreversible things.
    It's not for the first time, some of you may remember USS Donald Cook "deal".
    Wargame is an ideal way to show military strength, I'm not an anti-war moron, just a realist.

    Do we really need Russia to be our enemy?
    No, we don't, but somebody stands to benefit (wink wink, nod nod). And it's ok, it's not unreal to be anti-war, and take an honest approach to true last option.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Black Sea. Remain Unprovoked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Parker View Post
    Russian military jets and US destroyer clash in Black Sea 'posing danger to stability' - Europe - World - The Independent

    I don't like such incidents.
    Really - neither we nor russians want such things to happen. One button pressed due to unclear command or one guy loosing his nerves may lead to irreversible things.
    It's not for the first time, some of you may remember USS Donald Cook "deal".
    Wargame is an ideal way to show military strength, I'm not an anti-war moron, just a realist.

    Do we really need Russia to be our enemy?
    It is a risk. It will grow as more rising powers wrangle for power and their leaders try to impress their populations.

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    Re: Black Sea. Remain Unprovoked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Parker View Post
    Russian military jets and US destroyer clash in Black Sea 'posing danger to stability' - Europe - World - The Independent

    I don't like such incidents.
    Really - neither we nor russians want such things to happen. One button pressed due to unclear command or one guy loosing his nerves may lead to irreversible things.
    It's not for the first time, some of you may remember USS Donald Cook "deal".
    Wargame is an ideal way to show military strength, I'm not an anti-war moron, just a realist.

    Do we really need Russia to be our enemy?
    Hey! That's Cold War for you.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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    Re: Black Sea. Remain Unprovoked.

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    It is a risk. It will grow as more rising powers wrangle for power and their leaders try to impress their populations.
    The report does not say what this "clash" consisted of. Apparently armed Russian aircraft were for some reason ordered to fly close to a U.S. ship that was just sailing in international waters. Russian military ships and aircraft often pass close to the borders of this country. The U.S. can never allow another nation to dictate where our ships and aircraft may go outside that nation's territory, and I am sure the Russians take the same view.

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    Re: Black Sea. Remain Unprovoked.

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    The report does not say what this "clash" consisted of. Apparently armed Russian aircraft were for some reason ordered to fly close to a U.S. ship that was just sailing in international waters. Russian military ships and aircraft often pass close to the borders of this country. The U.S. can never allow another nation to dictate where our ships and aircraft may go outside that nation's territory, and I am sure the Russians take the same view.
    Yes. That is why it will get more dangerous. Even with the US and Russia that have great experience with such things from the time of the Cold War, the danger of technological or human error is very large. With more powers entering the froth the danger of global devastation grow rapidly.

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    Re: Black Sea. Remain Unprovoked.

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    The report does not say what this "clash" consisted of. Apparently armed Russian aircraft were for some reason ordered to fly close to a U.S. ship that was just sailing in international waters. Russian military ships and aircraft often pass close to the borders of this country. The U.S. can never allow another nation to dictate where our ships and aircraft may go outside that nation's territory, and I am sure the Russians take the same view.
    There's no dispute between the two countries on their rights to sail in international waters. The report says that because it was up against Russian waters, and the crew was behaving aggressively (which isn't defined in the piece) they became alarmed and went in for a closer look. Apparently after being passed over several times, the destroyer turned away for deeper waters.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Black Sea. Remain Unprovoked.

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Yes. That is why it will get more dangerous. Even with the US and Russia that have great experience with such things from the time of the Cold War, the danger of technological or human error is very large. With more powers entering the froth the danger of global devastation grow rapidly.
    "Global devastation"?????? Are you helping frame the language for our next pre-emptive war. Perhaps we need to engage Russia (seemingly China, too!) now before they bring about "global devastation"!!!!!!!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Black Sea. Remain Unprovoked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Winston Parker View Post
    Russian military jets and US destroyer clash in Black Sea 'posing danger to stability' - Europe - World - The Independent

    I don't like such incidents.
    Really - neither we nor russians want such things to happen. One button pressed due to unclear command or one guy loosing his nerves may lead to irreversible things.
    It's not for the first time, some of you may remember USS Donald Cook "deal".
    Wargame is an ideal way to show military strength, I'm not an anti-war moron, just a realist.

    Do we really need Russia to be our enemy?
    Y'know, it's kinda hard to keep from being Russia's enemy if they're determined to be our enemy.

    And as far as I can find, that "Donald Cook deal" is a crock. The following paragraph from the story is illuminating:

    After the incident, the foreign media reported that “Donald Cook” was rushed into a port in Romania. There all the 27 members of the crew filed a letter of resignation. It seems that all 27 people have written that they are not going to risk their lives. This is indirectly confirmed by the Pentagon statement according to which the action demoralized the crew of the American ship.

    First off, there's a heck of a lot more than 27 crewmembers - it's standard complement is 281 officers and enlisted. Second, they can't just "file a letter of resignation"...and they sure as heck couldn't in an overseas port in a place like Romania! What's more, there's this little thing called the 'internet' - and every single one of those sailors has access to it and the MSM would have found out about it within a day, if not within a few hours. If that 'deal' had actually occurred, we'd know about it posthaste, because the Navy would be using it as an excuse to get more funding to upgrade the fleet.

    In other words, this story isn't much different from the outrageous claptrap we often see put out by North Korea...and by Alex Jones, for that matter.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Black Sea. Remain Unprovoked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    "Global devastation"?????? Are you helping frame the language for our next pre-emptive war. Perhaps we need to engage Russia (seemingly China, too!) now before they bring about "global devastation"!!!!!!!
    Nope. That is the word for the outcome of non-cooperative games with multiple nuclear and near nuclear armed powers.

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