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U.S. Police Have Shot Dead 385 People In Five Months

CanadaJohn said:
You don't hear me saying that, but if I lived in such a neighbourhood, I wouldn't be outside too much and I'd be prepared to defend myself by whatever means necessary.
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I wouldn't live in such a neighborhood at all. Why don't they leave? There is no wall around the place.
 
Fletch said:
Who is making that argument? Oh, that's right. No one.
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You are. You said that the people the police were killing were armed and therefore the police were justified. Why shouldn't they be allowed to be armed?
 
rocket88 said:
You are. You said that the people the police were killing were armed and therefore the police were justified. Why shouldn't they be allowed to be armed?
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Now you are just lying.
 
rocket88 said:
That's nice. But if it's all the fault of the left, why isn't the right wing standing up for their rights?
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What part don't you understand that every major city in this country is a Democrat stronghold.

Let's just take the month of May for example......
In Baltimore, which was wracked by violence just one month ago after Freddie Gray, an African-American man, died while in police custody, 32 people were shot. Nine of them died. That brings to 35+ the shootings in Baltimore just in May and the month isn't over until midnight.

In New York City, eight people were shot and killed.

In Chicago, where murder has become common, 12+ people died and 44+ were wounded.

Care to take a guess what these three cities have in common? They are all presided over by elected Democratic mayors and majority Democratic city councils. They all have some of the strictest gun laws in the country.

President Obama says he was elected to "end wars, not start them." While he is retreating overseas, he might consider trying to end the war in America's inner cities. And those inner-city voters might benefit from ending their loyalty to a party that has done them little good.

And while we are at it, let's continue the charade to point to the racist, trigger happy cops that are "oppressing" the people. After all, that takes the heat off of the Progressives and their friggen failed policies.

163299_600.jpg
 
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Gaius46 said:
Tennessee v Garner says otherwise. The officer would need probable cause to suspect that person was going to harm someone else. Simply killing one person may not, depending on the specific circumstances, be enough to fulfill the probable cause requirement.
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Tennessee v. Garner applies to the use of deadly force to prevent the escape of an apparently unarmed suspected felon--in that case, one who had not killed anyone. The Court held that "such force may not be used unless it is necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others."

It's possible that a person who had just killed someone intentionally would appear to be unarmed, or in fact be unarmed. When the police saw him, he might no longer be holding or carrying a weapon, or he might have killed without using a weapon. It's also possible that the intentional killing the police officer knew he had committed was not a wrongful act, even if the officer did not know it was not. But it's pretty hard to imagine how an officer's knowledge that a person had just killed someone intentionally and was running away would not make that person a suspected felon, or give the officer probable cause to believe he posed, at the least, a significant threat of serious injury to others.
 
Tetron said:
All fear is reasonable to the one who is experiencing it so lets try and see if knowledge can remove the fear as it so often does. First lets take note of the fact that the shooting data appears to indicate a race blind police force. Despite the amount of publicity that has gotten the statistics say that its half white half minority so that seems relatively even. Next lets look at this sentence "Based on census numbers for the areas where the killings took place, blacks were killed at three times the rate of whites or other minorities." This sentence is rather obtuse, though perhaps experience on this site will have sharpened peoples minds enough to recognize what it really says. This is not a measure of total number of black people killed versus whites or minorities it is based on how much of the population they are. For instance if the area was 90% white and 10% black, then if one black person was shot and three white people were shot blacks would be being killed at three times the rate of whites. Its important to notice when this kind of information comes up as it can provide a distorted perspective.

Now lets look at the stuff that really impacts the danger to the average citizen. "More than 80 percent were armed with potentially lethal objects, mostly guns. " Given this information that means that in more than 80% of the cases the victim was armed, and not just appeared to be armed they had a potentially lethal weapon, which is another way of saying a lethal weapon that they had the potential to use on the officer. Given that the average citizen does not have a lethal weapon on his person unless someone has a reasoned objection I believe we can eliminate 80% of the killings as not valid for the average citizen to worry about. This takes us from 385 victims to 77. These 77 are at least able to be classified in the same category as the average citizen in that they were not carrying a weapon on their person at the time. That takes the odds of being killed by a police officer to 77:318 million or 0.000024%. Even these numbers though do not account for the number who might be mentally ill, or who physically attacked the police but such data would be difficult to compile.

What most people forget is that there is a significant balance to even those killings that are truly in the wrong. We have a society where the laws are enforced (this is becoming less true by the day but its still mostly true). The average person does not need a weapon to talk down the street, their house does not get robed, and they do not get killed in their beds. This is not to say this never happens but what the police do is make these occurrences rare. This is because the average citizen weighs the dangers of a crime against the gain from the crime and finds it not to be worth it. The reason most people dont speed excessively is that they dont want the ticket. In order for this kind of deterance system to work the police must have the authority to issue these tickets and punishments when they catch a perpetrator. If for instance all you had to do to get away with a crime was beat up a policeman, and the police did not have the authority to resort to greater, or even deadly force then every criminal would try and beat up the cops to get away. There has to be a consequence, and an immediate one to resisting arrest physically or the cops cant do their jobs. Verbal resistance or passive resistance should not get you shot of course but cops in the modern world are like soldiers in Iraq. The majority of the population hates them, and there is a small but significant portion of the population that will kill them given any chance to do so. Police officers are under extreme stress in their jobs, as much as soldiers in certain areas of the country, and with far less armament and with less protection.

Hopefully all of this makes police less scary to you, they really are doing their best and as long as you dont physically assault them while they are trying to arrest you, you are safe from being shot.
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Why have so many Police Depts been investigated by DOJ and found to be severely lacking with following the laws on the books? Officers flagrantly ignoring the law, until it instills a culture within the Dept itself.

How many investigations by DOJ does it take before Police Depts and their leadership to get the message, you follow the law, you enforce the law, you do not make Law.
 
Paschendale said:
They would be contesting an illegal arrest or search. But moreso, they wouldn't be.
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You're right, they wouldn't be. Prosecutors don't bring cases where the defendant seems to have anything that looks like a valid constitutional claim. The standards are demanding, and prosecutors also have very heavy workloads. They devote their resources to cases where they are very likely to get convictions. That means the defendant is often highly motivated to plead guilty to a reduced charge, which saves the state the cost of a trial.

And because poor people can't afford attorneys to press civil suits, so there's no one else to do it.
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Malarkey. There are all sorts of law offices that take up cases like that. That is how so many of them have gone all the way to the Supreme Court of the U.S., when it is obviously very expensive to take a case that far. And the poor people who have not been involved in those cases still benefit from the victories achieved in them.
 
roguenuke said:
Civilians have just as much or more incentive to abuse power, everyone is human. We all have potential to treat others like crap for some gain or just because.
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More incentive, I don't have more of an incentive to abuse power considering I hold no power over any other human.

You have a real negative outlook on humanity, the reality comes down to if police officers are given a power amongst civilians, and they obviously abuse it, maybe we should take a look at the system of police force itself.

Individuals have no incentive to abuse power, when they have no power to be used to abuse
 
MathewSmith said:
WASHINGTON, May 30 (Reuters) - U.S. police have shot and killed 385 people during the first five months of this year, a rate of more than two a day, the Washington Post reported on Saturday.
The victims ranged in age from 16 to 83. More than 80 percent were armed with potentially lethal objects, mostly guns. Ninety-two victims were identified as mentally ill.
The Post's analysis also indicates the daily death toll for 2015 is close to 2.6 as of Friday. At that pace, police will have shot and killed nearly 1,000 people by the end of the year, the paper said.

U.S. Police Have Shot Dead 385 People In Five Months: REPORT

I'm scared as hell. How did it get this bad? When have they turned into bad characters? And why?! Do the police ever evaluate whether any of those killings are avoidable? or preventable? And what can we do to change the situation? Because the situation is really horrible!
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your own post mentioned most of those shot were armed.that kinda contradicts the whole police brutlity and be scared meme.

in reality numerous people deal with police every day,many armed.most of those armed will declare their weapons,then they put them on the ground and police investigate,then reurn them upon no probable cause or ill intent.after all having a gun in your car in lets say texas is legal.

however most of those are not law abiding citizens,and either flee arrest or try to assault police.some of those people end up being innocent and were killed by accident or by police judgemnt of the situation.in an occupation like police or military,bad judgements can lead to death,and no judgement leads to even more death.

the police are not exempt from the justice system,and the justice system determines if the police actions were justified based on available information at that moment,reckless,or simply malice,and they get punished accordingly.
 
Captain America said:
LOL! I know, right!?!?

Heck, just in Chicago ALONE......

Through Monday, the city recorded 78 homicides, about a 26 percent increase over the entire three-month period last year, when there were 62, Chicago Police Department statistics show. There was also about a 13 percent rise since 2013, when there were 69 from January through March.

The number of killings is six more, though, than through the first three months of 2011, when it was 72.

Shootings rose by about 40 percent during the first three months of this year, according to the statistics. Through Monday, there were 355 shootings, compared with 253 through all of March 2014. <snip> Chicago homicides, shootings up in 2015 - Chicago Tribune

Why aren't these anti-cop apologists protesting up and down MLK Blvd., in Bigtown, USA, where the REAL killing is taking place? I mean, if they are all that concerned for the criminal element.

I dunno. I think I have wasted enough time trying to understand those people. Time to change the channel.
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Just remember...1 person dead in police custody Baltimore = riots and protests while 105 in 5 months including a mother and her 7 year old son = silence. Cuz...black lives matter and stuff.
 
vesper said:
What part don't you understand that every major city in this country is a Democrat stronghold.

Let's just take the month of May for example......
In Baltimore, which was wracked by violence just one month ago after Freddie Gray, an African-American man, died while in police custody, 32 people were shot. Nine of them died. That brings to 35+ the shootings in Baltimore just in May and the month isn't over until midnight.

In New York City, eight people were shot and killed.

In Chicago, where murder has become common, 12+ people died and 44+ were wounded.

Care to take a guess what these three cities have in common? They are all presided over by elected Democratic mayors and majority Democratic city councils. They all have some of the strictest gun laws in the country.

President Obama says he was elected to "end wars, not start them." While he is retreating overseas, he might consider trying to end the war in America's inner cities. And those inner-city voters might benefit from ending their loyalty to a party that has done them little good.

And while we are at it, let's continue the charade to point to the racist, trigger happy cops that are "oppressing" the people. After all, that takes the heat off of the Progressives and their friggen failed policies.

163299_600.jpg
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So then where's the right with anything other than blame? If people don't have the Second Amendment, where is the NRA?

All you've done is prove you have nothing but blame and talking points. Not surprising, sadly.
 
VanceMack said:
Just remember...1 person dead in police custody Baltimore = riots and protests while 105 in 5 months including a mother and her 7 year old son = silence. Cuz...black lives matter and stuff.
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Of those 105 in 5 months, how many involve government agents working in departments with long history of abuse and harrassment?
 
reinoe said:
Of those 105 in 5 months, how many involve government agents working in departments with long history of abuse and harrassment?
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None. They DO however involve black people killing other black people, including innocent women and children.

Thanks for proving the point. The only black lives that 'matter' to you are the ones you can exploit for a political cause. How pathetic.
 
Fletch said:
Now you are just lying.
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Then maybe you should make a clear argument. You said the killings are justified because 80% of these people are armed. Why would that be illegal?
 
MathewSmith said:
WASHINGTON, May 30 (Reuters) - U.S. police have shot and killed 385 people during the first five months of this year, a rate of more than two a day, the Washington Post reported on Saturday.
The victims ranged in age from 16 to 83. More than 80 percent were armed with potentially lethal objects, mostly guns. Ninety-two victims were identified as mentally ill.
The Post's analysis also indicates the daily death toll for 2015 is close to 2.6 as of Friday. At that pace, police will have shot and killed nearly 1,000 people by the end of the year, the paper said.

U.S. Police Have Shot Dead 385 People In Five Months: REPORT

I'm scared as hell. How did it get this bad? When have they turned into bad characters? And why?! Do the police ever evaluate whether any of those killings are avoidable? or preventable? And what can we do to change the situation? Because the situation is really horrible!
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Why are you afraid?

Do you think you'll be involved with the Police while armed with a potentially lethal object? Maybe a gun?

And why do you assume the Police have turned into "bad characters"? Rest assured, every death at the hands of an Officer is investigated and evaluated.

Also, why do you want to change the situation? What is so horrible about it? Do you want armed people threatening the public or the Police? Do you want mentally ill people...who may be armed...threatening the public or the Police?


Perhaps some of those 385 deaths didn't make it into the statistics for Chicago...one American city that has had (year to date) 167 homicides, 141 shot and killed, 843 shot and wounded and 984 total shot.

2015 Stats | Chicago Murder, Crime & Mayhem | HeyJackass!


btw, here is a graphic showing you are safer in Chicago if you are one of the four people shot by a Policeman this year.

2015_police_shootings.png
 
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EMNofSeattle said:
That's exactly what I said, non dangerous fleeing criminal.

So I was right.
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First point is that that is not what the decision says. The decision says "such force may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others." Just because someone has committed a homicide it doesn't necessarily follow that they pose a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to anyone. Think about a jealous spouse who kills his wife's boyfriend in a fit of anger as an example.
 
NonoBadDog said:
This one of those drama inducing, sensationalizing pieces that people read and react to without absolutely no thought and all emotion.
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A self-fulfilled prophecy.
 
matchlight said:
Tennessee v. Garner applies to the use of deadly force to prevent the escape of an apparently unarmed suspected felon--in that case, one who had not killed anyone. The Court held that "such force may not be used unless it is necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others."

It's possible that a person who had just killed someone intentionally would appear to be unarmed, or in fact be unarmed. When the police saw him, he might no longer be holding or carrying a weapon, or he might have killed without using a weapon. It's also possible that the intentional killing the police officer knew he had committed was not a wrongful act, even if the officer did not know it was not. But it's pretty hard to imagine how an officer's knowledge that a person had just killed someone intentionally and was running away would not make that person a suspected felon, or give the officer probable cause to believe he posed, at the least, a significant threat of serious injury to others.
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I used the example, in another post, of a man who killed his wife's lover in a jealous rage, or perhaps someone who killed someone who harmed their child. In both of those examples the killer is not likely to pose a threat to anyone, especially if they are unarmed. It's not really all that hard to imagine people who kill someone out of passion or stupidity and don't pose a threat to the rest of us.

My only point is that just because the crime is a murder it doesn't automatically mean the cop can shoot the person if they feel. They still need to pass the Garner test.
 
Higgins86 said:
Surely the question you should be asking is not " why are police officers shooting so many people"? but instead " why are your Police being put In these situations more and more often"?

Is this stat more a reflection on how much more violent America has become rather than how much more violent the police have become?
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Actually, violent crime has decreased while police shootings have increased.
 
reinoe said:
So our LEO's are enacting their own little No Child Left Behind Policy. Cops target crib with flash grenade.
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Neocon response

"That statistic is irrelevant because it hardly happens"

My response, "didn't you force me to pay for that through coercion?"

Their response " so what who cares if they flash bang babies and beat old grandmas, they are better at making judgement calls then you due to training"

... I think the evidence speaks for itself considering I have never associated with or worked with some one who has flash banged a baby or beat up and old lady for delivering cookies to her grandchild at school
 
reinoe said:
Of those 105 in 5 months, how many involve government agents working in departments with long history of abuse and harrassment?
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None. They're the result of gangs that have a long history of abuse and harassment.
 
MathewSmith said:
WASHINGTON, May 30 (Reuters) - U.S. police have shot and killed 385 people during the first five months of this year, a rate of more than two a day, the Washington Post reported on Saturday.
The victims ranged in age from 16 to 83. More than 80 percent were armed with potentially lethal objects, mostly guns. Ninety-two victims were identified as mentally ill.
The Post's analysis also indicates the daily death toll for 2015 is close to 2.6 as of Friday. At that pace, police will have shot and killed nearly 1,000 people by the end of the year, the paper said.

U.S. Police Have Shot Dead 385 People In Five Months: REPORT

I'm scared as hell. How did it get this bad? When have they turned into bad characters? And why?! Do the police ever evaluate whether any of those killings are avoidable? or preventable? And what can we do to change the situation? Because the situation is really horrible!
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So you want cops to not shoot suspects who threaten them with weapons or suspects who are dangerous? It is stupid and disingenuous to add justified shootings to this number.
 
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