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Thread: China threatens nuclear war with U.S.

  1. #41
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    Re: China threatens nuclear war with U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by John V View Post
    Sandwiched between the usual banal topics of gay marriage and Ferguson, is a U.S. threat to send ships and aircraft to the South China sea over the disputed islands. America claims that the dispute is about territorial rights in the sea itself and China says it’s about the islands themselves.

    Do you, like me, get a feeling of a possible big catastrophe coming in the not too distant future?

    An American response
    China cautions U.S. Navy on patrols in South China Sea - CNNPolitics.com
    ‘Washington (CNN)—The U.S. is considering deploying aircraft and ships to contest Chinese claims to disputed islands in the South China Sea, U.S. officials said Wednesday.
    Options are on the table to fly surveillance aircraft and sail Navy ships nearby in a move that puts the U.S. directly into a contentious territorial contest in East Asia, in which, until now, the U.S. has avoided overtly taking sides.’


    China replies
    Chinese State Paper Warns "War Will Be Inevitable" Unless U.S. Stops Meddling In Territorial Dispute | Zero Hedge
    'A war between the United States and China is “inevitable” unless Washington stops demanding Beijing halt its construction projects in the South China Sea, a Chinese state-owned newspaper warns.
    “If the United States’ bottom line is that China has to halt its activities, then a US-China war is inevitable in the South China Sea,” The Global Times, an influential newspaper owned by the ruling Communist Party’s official newspaper the People’s Daily, said in an editorial Monday.'


    Will America back down? Possibly the idea will be shelved, or it might end in a stalemate. America will sail through the South China seas as it’s entitled to do but keeping well away from the islands and stick it’s tongue out and China will boast it didn’t intervene because it didn’t come near the islands. Face saved on both sides and everyone goes home happy.
    The alternative is that America does intrude on the islands in which case China will react. The loss of face, which are often grounds for suicide in Asia, will force them to do so.

    An alternative view
    ?'Nuclear war our likely future': Russia & China won't accept US hegemony, Reagan official warns ? RT News
    "The White House is determined to block the rise of the key nuclear-armed nations, Russia and China, neither of whom will join the "world’s acceptance of Washington’s hegemony," says head of the Institute for Political Economy, Paul Craig Roberts.
    Dr Roberts believes that neither Russia, nor China will meanwhile accept the so-called "vassalage status accepted by the UK, Germany, France and the rest of Europe, Canada, Japan and Australia." According to the political analyst, the "price of world peace is the world’s acceptance of Washington’s hegemony."


    I think what America increasingly has to accept is that there are two new kids on the block called Russia and China and both have threatened to use nuclear weapons. China is not in opposition to a U.S. military presence in places like Japan or South Korea, but like Putin with the Ukraine and now China with the islands dispute, both are increasingly drawing red lines of their own in their own backyards.
    Good morning, John V.

    Hegemony: Preponderant influence or authority over others.

    I agree with your post, especially the last paragraph. Since the end of WW2, we have become the "parent" to the rest of the world, and for the most part, we have done a decent job. Other great civilizations in history had also enjoyed that role primarily due to military superiority. However, nothing lasts forever, and the "children" today have now grown strong enough that they apparently feel a challenge to our sole leadership is warranted, since they also have comparable military strength, and they do not want us deciding their future for them.

    Some sort of compromise is very necessary now, since heavy-handedness on anyone's part could destroy this planet, and every living thing on it. No one country has the right to control shipping lanes or where planes may or may not fly, since those have already been internationally accepted by everyone. I can only hope that adults understand that, and will find a solution that is acceptable to all concerned.

    I am also including the ME in my post, since they are generally getting away with things we won't put up with from any other region on this globe - while we demonize Russia and China for trying the same thing? That's nonsense! Let's have a little honesty here!

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    Re: China threatens nuclear war with U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    A couple of things don. While I don't think that I've seen anybody suggesting that war between the US and China is the only possible outcome! What's concerning is that rhetoric on both sides rises to the point of irresponsible, with the appearance that there are no alternatives between doing nothing and going to war with China! Mulling around sending a larger naval presence to the SCS, along with Taiwan, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, and China, who's navies are already out and about just seems to be a potential for "incident" in the crowded invironment.
    That is one way of looking at it. Very similar to saying that war was not necessary in 1914 or 1939. True in some ways.

    On the other hand, it is a very traditional view of history and as history has proven the best way of finding ourselves in the midst of war again.

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    Re: China threatens nuclear war with U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Good morning, John V.

    Hegemony: Preponderant influence or authority over others.

    I agree with your post, especially the last paragraph. Since the end of WW2, we have become the "parent" to the rest of the world, and for the most part, we have done a decent job. Other great civilizations in history had also enjoyed that role primarily due to military superiority. However, nothing lasts forever, and the "children" today have now grown strong enough that they apparently feel a challenge to our sole leadership is warranted, since they also have comparable military strength, and they do not want us deciding their future for them.

    Some sort of compromise is very necessary now, since heavy-handedness on anyone's part could destroy this planet, and every living thing on it. No one country has the right to control shipping lanes or where planes may or may not fly, since those have already been internationally accepted by everyone. I can only hope that adults understand that, and will find a solution that is acceptable to all concerned.

    I am also including the ME in my post, since they are generally getting away with things we won't put up with from any other region on this globe - while we demonize Russia and China for trying the same thing? That's nonsense! Let's have a little honesty here!
    Good evening Polgara. I work in Northern China, near the Siberian border and it’s Saturday evening, 2310 hrs.

    Yes, nothing lasts forever and perhaps it’s time for the children to leave home and go it alone. They will make mistakes, rebel and it will take time to adapt. America will always be there for a shoulder to return and cry on and offer advice. America became a superpower in under 200 years, a miracle and a place where refugees flocked to in droves. In less than one generation it has become the most hated country in the world and it needs to ask itself why.

    I think what Americans in general don’t or can’t accept is that every country considers itself exceptional too. Patriotism is entirely different from nationalism and an excess of nationalism and the idea of exceptionalism is exactly what America fought against in WWII.

  4. #44
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    Re: China threatens nuclear war with U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Russia informed Denmark, I think it was, that their boats would be targets for nuclear attack, if they participate in the missile defense system. As far as I remember the Russian strategy papers are quite clear on nuclear weapons' use. But it seems child like to squabble on this point. The fact is quite obvious as is it unquestioned that the USA will use nukes under certain circumstances.
    Not only is Denmark not the US, which was the point, all nuclear powers have pre planed nuclear scenarios with potential enemies with targets already identified. Russia's comments to Denmark have been intentionally mischaracterized. Of course Russia was letting Denmark know that with their acceptance of NATO MD they would now be factored in to Russia's various nuclear contingencies.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: China threatens nuclear war with U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by John V View Post
    I think what Russia warned Denmark about is if it joined NATO’s defence system, it would itself become a target if hostilities escalated and not that it would attack Denmark if it joined.

    Yes, more and more want nuclear power, but the U.S. can’t intervene in North Korea because that would involve China and China can’t intervene in Pakistan because that would involve the U.S.
    My point was that if the big three joined in cooperation, this could be halted by mutual agreement instead of antagonising each other and everyone drawing ‘red lines’, daring and prodding each other. I personally think that's unlikely to happen and so although the U.S. is prepared to use WMD's, the danger now is that so are others.
    To the bolded. Everyone knows that, the mischaracterization is a lazy convenience.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: China threatens nuclear war with U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    it's fairly unlikely that China is going to nuke one of its largest markets.
    Nevermind largest market since China knows that in doing so, it's population will be reduced to zero in a similar, retaliatory attack.
    -----MOS 19D = cavalry scout = best damn MOS there is

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    Re: China threatens nuclear war with U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by John V View Post
    I’ll go for that view too.

    Perhaps it’s time for America to stop policing the world and become a little more isolationist and concentrate on its own internal security, in its own backyard?

    I think that what isn’t fully understood in the west is that if sanctions hit Russia hard, their answer is to tighten their belts. In China’s case, a few cities incinerated and the loss of tens of millions wouldn’t be seen as losing. Several years ago I wondered why China was building ‘ghost cities’. Now I wonder if they know something we don’t.

    The problem I think is that America has never seen real war on its own doorstep, the closest it got was 9/11 and that shocked it to the core. TV news of ‘shock and awe’ in Iraq were watched by millions sitting in a chair in the comfort of their own homes, oohing and aahing at the pretty lights and loud bangs – it was somewhere else. The U.S. is so technology advanced and reliant, that a couple of nuclear explosions on major cities and the chaos and anarchy that follows would pretty much send it back to the days of the Founding Fathers. Can you imagine the lights going out in Europe or America for more than a few hours? It’s having problems now keeping the lid on civil unrest.
    No doubt someone will pop up and say no one would dare challenge the U.S. to which I’d reply; they already have.
    Fail, China was building ghost cities in order to keep people employed and keep China's growth rate from falling. Said ghost cities don't really have any more use outside of that and now they are actually becoming detrimental to the economic state of China.

    Don't tie in economics with conspiracy theories. It's a lot more intellectual than that.
    -----MOS 19D = cavalry scout = best damn MOS there is

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    Re: China threatens nuclear war with U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe View Post
    Nevermind largest market since China knows that in doing so, it's population will be reduced to zero in a similar, retaliatory attack.
    correct. MAD also applies to China.

    of course, that brings up an interesting question, though i still think war with China is less likely than Kim Jong Un deciding to turn NK into a first world democracy :

    who made the electronics for our weapons and the computer networks that control them?


  9. #49
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    Re: China threatens nuclear war with U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by John V View Post
    Sandwiched between the usual banal topics of gay marriage and Ferguson, is a U.S. threat to send ships and aircraft to the South China sea over the disputed islands. America claims that the dispute is about territorial rights in the sea itself and China says it’s about the islands themselves.

    Do you, like me, get a feeling of a possible big catastrophe coming in the not too distant future?

    An American response
    China cautions U.S. Navy on patrols in South China Sea - CNNPolitics.com
    ‘Washington (CNN)—The U.S. is considering deploying aircraft and ships to contest Chinese claims to disputed islands in the South China Sea, U.S. officials said Wednesday.
    Options are on the table to fly surveillance aircraft and sail Navy ships nearby in a move that puts the U.S. directly into a contentious territorial contest in East Asia, in which, until now, the U.S. has avoided overtly taking sides.’


    China replies
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-0...inese-state-ne
    'A war between the United States and China is “inevitable” unless Washington stops demanding Beijing halt its construction projects in the South China Sea, a Chinese state-owned newspaper warns.
    “If the United States’ bottom line is that China has to halt its activities, then a US-China war is inevitable in the South China Sea,” The Global Times, an influential newspaper owned by the ruling Communist Party’s official newspaper the People’s Daily, said in an editorial Monday.'


    Will America back down? Possibly the idea will be shelved, or it might end in a stalemate. America will sail through the South China seas as it’s entitled to do but keeping well away from the islands and stick it’s tongue out and China will boast it didn’t intervene because it didn’t come near the islands. Face saved on both sides and everyone goes home happy.
    The alternative is that America does intrude on the islands in which case China will react. The loss of face, which are often grounds for suicide in Asia, will force them to do so.

    An alternative view
    ?'Nuclear war our likely future': Russia & China won't accept US hegemony, Reagan official warns ? RT News
    "The White House is determined to block the rise of the key nuclear-armed nations, Russia and China, neither of whom will join the "world’s acceptance of Washington’s hegemony," says head of the Institute for Political Economy, Paul Craig Roberts.
    Dr Roberts believes that neither Russia, nor China will meanwhile accept the so-called "vassalage status accepted by the UK, Germany, France and the rest of Europe, Canada, Japan and Australia." According to the political analyst, the "price of world peace is the world’s acceptance of Washington’s hegemony."


    I think what America increasingly has to accept is that there are two new kids on the block called Russia and China and both have threatened to use nuclear weapons. China is not in opposition to a U.S. military presence in places like Japan or South Korea, but like Putin with the Ukraine and now China with the islands dispute, both are increasingly drawing red lines of their own in their own backyards.
    I don't see a perfect storm coming. China is just posturing again and they're putting on a show for the Japanese. There is a territorial 'disagreement' going on between the two and this looks to me to be the next logical step. MY problem with this is what's up with all the local countries in the area? They can't man their own front?
    Last edited by jet57; 05-30-15 at 11:56 AM.
    “looking with fondness towards a reconciliation with Great Britain…I…would rather be dependent on Great Britain, properly limited, than with any other nation on earth or on no nation”. Thomas Jefferson; August 25 1775

  10. #50
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    Re: China threatens nuclear war with U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    That is one way of looking at it. Very similar to saying that war was not necessary in 1914 or 1939. True in some ways.

    On the other hand, it is a very traditional view of history and as history has proven the best way of finding ourselves in the midst of war again.
    Wang Yi and Ash Carter have exchanged some very charged rhetoric well in advance of any meaningful diplomacy. Also, China and Russia both have been paying attention to the way the US has been pursuing its interests in the Middle East with pre-emptive wars argued on the perceived threat to our national security!!!! So, little wonder that we might here China telling the US that their aircraft within 200 Miles of the mainland coast will be perceived as a threat and answered to accordingly.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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