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Thread: China threatens nuclear war with U.S.

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    Re: China threatens nuclear war with U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Anyone who thinks that China is thinking of going to war with the USA is out of touch with reality.

    Indeed.

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    Re: China threatens nuclear war with U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Anyone who thinks that China is thinking of going to war with the USA is out of touch with reality.

    Well, China certainly doesn't have the slightest intentions of initiating any such thing!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: China threatens nuclear war with U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Nott View Post
    If 'America, with Japan and other allies, stand up to China in the South China seas' China will appeal to call its allies for help too and I think all of BRICS will support China nearly in all possible conflicts with the pro-western world.
    You should research Chinese Indian relations.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: China threatens nuclear war with U.S.

    I don’t post the links I use as irrefutable proof. I’d rather just write articles as essays, but doing that would have the Googler’s amongst you up in arms for lack of sources, because that’s where the vast majority now get information from and it’s why many threads start with a long quote followed by a sentence trying to explain it and asking for comment from others.
    That’s the nature of forums, so I include links, which might stimulate further interest and make people search for more information.

    The problem with links, as we’re now seeing, is that information then becomes secondary to the primary source. If someone gave links from ‘The Chinese Daily’, that would be seen as propaganda; whereas links from ‘Fox news’, would be seen by many as right wing lies and the posts then becomes more of an issue about sources rather than the topic itself. You can see this across any forum, as usually by about the third page the topic debate turns into a question of political stance and/or source links.

    Yet there are facts. Both the Russians and Chinese are challenging America dominance. The Chinese government has stated in its official news sources that China will fight if America interferes in the Islands disputes. Putin has said that he was prepared to use nuclear weapons over the Ukraine dispute. America is increasing its military presence in Asia and NATO is moving forwards near the Russian border. The question then is; what will happen? Will all this just fizzle out and everybody goes home in a compromise, or is all this a prelude to something much bigger.

    The opinions of, ‘Russia and China are weak’ or ‘They wouldn’t dare challenge America’ are both factually incorrect. Russia and China are just as capable of delivering ICBM’s into America, as America is to Russia and China. When superpowers fall out and all three are, this isn’t an Iraq scenario or a question of, ‘we’ll go in there and kick some ass.’ Russia has just introduced its fourth generation new class of silent submarines and China has produced its sixth generation of J-20 stealth fighter aircraft . . . neither country’s forces are running around with AK47’s or living in caves in Afghanistan.

    Russian.jpg Chinese.jpg

    My point is that an attack from just one of these Armageddon monsters puts any country back to prehistoric times and so for example, the comments of, ‘We’ve got more than they have’ misses the famous quote of Einstein, in which he said, “I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.” In other words, you don’t win fights against other superpowers.

    You can’t conquer either Russia or China with ‘boots on the ground’ and ‘shock and awe’ on their cities will produce the same on American cities. The problem generally with Americans in my opinion, is the notion that all wars are fought ‘over there’ and have come to resemble the entertainment value of a football match, or Cowboys v Indians in which the Cowboys always win. What America has to realise is that exceptionalism and patriotism is not just an American definition, but applies to how others also see themselves and so a compromise has to be reached, because if America keeps pushing and intruding on the spheres of influence of other superpowers, this isn’t going to end well.

    There we go; explanation, fact and opinion and not a link in sight.
    Last edited by John V; 06-02-15 at 07:05 AM.

  5. #135
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    Re: China threatens nuclear war with U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by John V View Post
    I don’t post the links I use as irrefutable proof. I’d rather just write articles as essays, but doing that would have the Googler’s amongst you up in arms for lack of sources, because that’s where the vast majority now get information from and it’s why many threads start with a long quote followed by a sentence trying to explain it and asking for comment from others.
    That’s the nature of forums, so I include links, which might stimulate further interest and make people search for more information.

    The problem with links, as we’re now seeing, is that information then becomes secondary to the primary source. If someone gave links from ‘The Chinese Daily’, that would be seen as propaganda; whereas links from ‘Fox news’, would be seen by many as right wing lies and the posts then becomes more of an issue about sources rather than the topic itself. You can see this across any forum, as usually by about the third page the topic debate turns into a question of political stance and/or source links.

    Yet there are facts. Both the Russians and Chinese are challenging America dominance. The Chinese government has stated in its official news sources that China will fight if America interferes in the Islands disputes. Putin has said that he was prepared to use nuclear weapons over the Ukraine dispute. America is increasing its military presence in Asia and NATO is moving forwards near the Russian border. The question then is; what will happen? Will all this just fizzle out and everybody goes home in a compromise, or is all this a prelude to something much bigger.

    The opinions of, ‘Russia and China are weak’ or ‘They wouldn’t dare challenge America’ are both factually incorrect. Russia and China are just as capable of delivering ICBM’s into America, as America is to Russia and China. When superpowers fall out and all three are, this isn’t an Iraq scenario or a question of, ‘we’ll go in there and kick some ass.’ Russia has just introduced its fourth generation new class of silent submarines and China has produced its sixth generation of J-20 stealth fighter aircraft . . . neither country’s forces are running around with AK47’s or living in caves in Afghanistan.

    Russian.jpg Chinese.jpg

    My point is that an attack from just one of these Armageddon monsters puts any country back to prehistoric times and so for example, the comments of, ‘We’ve got more than they have’ misses the famous quote of Einstein, in which he said, “I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.” In other words, you don’t win fights against other superpowers.

    You can’t conquer either Russia or China with ‘boots on the ground’ and ‘shock and awe’ on their cities will produce the same on American cities. The problem generally with Americans in my opinion, is that all wars are fought ‘over there’ and have come to resemble the entertainment value of a football match, or Cowboys v Indians in which the Cowboys always win. What America has to realise is that exceptionalism and patriotism is not just an American definition, but applies to how others also see themselves and so a compromise has to be reached, because if America keeps pushing and intruding on the spheres of influence of other superpowers, this isn’t going to end well.

    There we go; explanation, fact and opinion and not a link in sight.
    Very good as well! Yes, pushing and leaning on countries like Russia and China the way that we have been and insisting that neither of them have the will or capacity to respond is stupid, and just the thing that could find us in a situation we'd better avoid. USFP is unquestionably pushing Russia and China closer together. FDR waged an economic war with Japan (as well as other provocations) before they ended up striking out at us. It's alarming to me that US behavior in the WesPac is dismissed by the hawks. But China's not dismissing it at all. Troop placement in Australia for the first time since WW11, constructing a huge base in Guam, seeking the use once again of Vietnams deep water port, seeking to begin using Filipino military bases once again, conducting military exercises with our regional ally's in the SCS, flying unnecessary missions over Chinese operations in the Spratly's, moving aircraft carrier battle group to the region, all things that China feels it's being boxed in by.
    Last edited by Montecresto; 06-02-15 at 07:19 AM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: China threatens nuclear war with U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Very good as well! Yes, pushing and leaning on countries like Russia and China the way that we have been and insisting that neither of them have the will or capacity to respond is stupid, and just the thing that could find us in a situation we'd better avoid. USFP is unquestionably pushing Russia and China closer together. FDR waged an economic war with Japan (as well as other provocations) before they ended up striking out at us. It's alarming to me that US behavior in the WesPac is dismissed by the hawks. But China's not dismissing it at all. Troop placement in Australia for the first time since WW11, constructing a huge base in Guam, seeking the use once again of Vietnams deep water port, seeking to begin using Filipino military bases once again, conducting military exercises with our regional ally's in the SCS, flying unnecessary missions over Chinese operations in the Spratly's, moving aircraft carrier battle group to the region, all things that China feels it's being boxed in by.
    Thanks Monte.
    One thing I forgot to mention is the level of nationalism. There is no flag burning, no left v right and no discussion or dissent. The CPC say go and all 1.3 billion go. It has a completely different mind-set to the west. You can destroy a country like that, but you can’t fight it. My point is not to promote China or argue superiority of either side; it’s to dispel the media and U.S. hawk myth that ‘confidence is high’ and that somehow China or Russia are still the old communist basket cases and will run at the sight of a U.S. carrier.
    Because of western militarism and sanctions, the outcome has pushed Russia, China and Iran into closer co-operation which is the exact opposite of what it wanted.

  7. #137
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    Re: China threatens nuclear war with U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by John V View Post
    Thanks Monte.
    One thing I forgot to mention is the level of nationalism. There is no flag burning, no left v right and no discussion or dissent. The CPC say go and all 1.3 billion go. It has a completely different mind-set to the west. You can destroy a country like that, but you can’t fight it. My point is not to promote China or argue superiority of either side; it’s to dispel the media and U.S. hawk myth that ‘confidence is high’ and that somehow China or Russia are still the old communist basket cases and will run at the sight of a U.S. carrier.
    Because of western militarism and sanctions, the outcome has pushed Russia, China and Iran into closer co-operation which is the exact opposite of what it wanted.
    That's what I'm thinking!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  8. #138
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    Re: China threatens nuclear war with U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by John V View Post
    I don’t post the links I use as irrefutable proof. I’d rather just write articles as essays, but doing that would have the Googler’s amongst you up in arms for lack of sources, because that’s where the vast majority now get information from and it’s why many threads start with a long quote followed by a sentence trying to explain it and asking for comment from others.
    That’s the nature of forums, so I include links, which might stimulate further interest and make people search for more information.

    The problem with links, as we’re now seeing, is that information then becomes secondary to the primary source. If someone gave links from ‘The Chinese Daily’, that would be seen as propaganda; whereas links from ‘Fox news’, would be seen by many as right wing lies and the posts then becomes more of an issue about sources rather than the topic itself. You can see this across any forum, as usually by about the third page the topic debate turns into a question of political stance and/or source links.

    Yet there are facts. Both the Russians and Chinese are challenging America dominance. The Chinese government has stated in its official news sources that China will fight if America interferes in the Islands disputes. Putin has said that he was prepared to use nuclear weapons over the Ukraine dispute. America is increasing its military presence in Asia and NATO is moving forwards near the Russian border. The question then is; what will happen? Will all this just fizzle out and everybody goes home in a compromise, or is all this a prelude to something much bigger.

    The opinions of, ‘Russia and China are weak’ or ‘They wouldn’t dare challenge America’ are both factually incorrect. Russia and China are just as capable of delivering ICBM’s into America, as America is to Russia and China. When superpowers fall out and all three are, this isn’t an Iraq scenario or a question of, ‘we’ll go in there and kick some ass.’ Russia has just introduced its fourth generation new class of silent submarines and China has produced its sixth generation of J-20 stealth fighter aircraft . . . neither country’s forces are running around with AK47’s or living in caves in Afghanistan.

    Russian.jpg Chinese.jpg

    My point is that an attack from just one of these Armageddon monsters puts any country back to prehistoric times and so for example, the comments of, ‘We’ve got more than they have’ misses the famous quote of Einstein, in which he said, “I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.” In other words, you don’t win fights against other superpowers.

    You can’t conquer either Russia or China with ‘boots on the ground’ and ‘shock and awe’ on their cities will produce the same on American cities. The problem generally with Americans in my opinion, is the notion that all wars are fought ‘over there’ and have come to resemble the entertainment value of a football match, or Cowboys v Indians in which the Cowboys always win. What America has to realise is that exceptionalism and patriotism is not just an American definition, but applies to how others also see themselves and so a compromise has to be reached, because if America keeps pushing and intruding on the spheres of influence of other superpowers, this isn’t going to end well.

    There we go; explanation, fact and opinion and not a link in sight.
    Pretty much complete nonsense.

  9. #139
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    Re: China threatens nuclear war with U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Anyone who thinks that China is thinking of going to war with the USA is out of touch with reality.

    it's the usual neoconservative bellicose rhetoric. probably best thing we can do to stand up to China is to make our own economy stronger instead of shipping it there.

    and also, i'm still curious : who makes the electronics for our weapons systems and the networks which control them?

    found this :

    Counterfeit electronics in "America's most crucial weapons systems." Senator Carl Levin. China denies visit. | ADNAS

    whoops. well, how could that possibly go wrong?

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    Re: China threatens nuclear war with U.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Care to be anymore vague?
    Neither side benefits from a war. Neither side wants war. Both sides have a lot to lose in event of a war.

    USA's interests are to protect its allies (Japan and Taiwan) and ensure no single nation has hedgemony in the region to ensure stability. China's interests are to ensure its security. Neither side's request is unreasonable.

    Adults will sit down and discuss, and come to an agreement

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