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Thread: Nebraska Abolishes Death Penalty[W:203]

  1. #231
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    Re: Nebraska Abolishes Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by MickeyW View Post
    It's rough years for those folks who commit white collar crimes and are in for 5-10 years and are subjected to the heinous animals that should have been quickly put to death, in the first place! Ever think of that?
    What?

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    Re: Nebraska Abolishes Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    ok.. get rid of it... it doesn't affect me whatsoever...I'm not a murderer.


    ....we can work towards getting rid of life sentences next... it'll be fun.
    OK, now talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water. Listen, there's no reason to immediately jump to the absurd. Life in Prison w/o Parole does offer society protection and safety by keeping repeat or horribly violent criminals behind bars for life. The Death Penalty doesn't offer anything to society that Life doesn't already give. It's why it is, in part, redundant.

    I don't get the temper tantrum some on the pro-DP side have when people point out the expense, the flaws, and the zero added value of DP that makes them just go off the deep end and start saying things like "well let's just get rid of the whole thing". No one is saying to get rid of the whole thing. No one is saying that the prison system in and of itself is unnecessary. Just this one piece of it, which has shown itself time and time again to be flawed, to be excessively expensive, to have no benefit to society beyond what we already get from the base system.
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    Re: Nebraska Abolishes Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    People are exonerated even after decades in prison. It doesn't happen often but it does happen.
    that doesn't fix anything . . especially after decades . . .
    if im locked up for ten years for something i did not do and then I'm freed NOTHING is fixed . . . its broken forever . .
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  4. #234
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    Re: Nebraska Abolishes Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    that doesn't fix anything . . especially after decades . . .
    if im locked up for ten years for something i did not do and then I'm freed NOTHING is fixed . . . its broken forever . .
    I've seen this response before and I remain as baffled by its significance to the topic now as I was then. Are you suggesting that because any length of mistaken imprisonment is destructive to the victim that somehow justifies a mistaken death sentence? Seeking clarification.

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    Re: Nebraska Abolishes Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I've seen this response before and I remain as baffled by its significance to the topic now as I was then. Are you suggesting that because a false life imprisonment is destructive to the victim that somehow justifies a mistaken death sentence? Seeking clarification.
    huh?
    absolutely not suggesting that at all that would be retarded . . . so sure I can clarify lol
    theres no justification for false punishment whether its life in prison or death


    I was simply pointing out that if a person is worried about false convictions THATS what needs addressed. . . . address how court and convictions work . . address level of evidence for crimes/punishment . . .abolishing the death penalty doesn't fix the horrific injustice of false convictions

    the poster I quoted falsely suggested that "it can be fixed" I simply pointed out that is not true . .. it can not be "fixed" . . . a person may have the subjective opinion that one is better than the other but thats all it is

    . a false conviction ending up with life in prison vs death penalty is like asking a woman if she wants raped everyday until she dies some other way or just rapped once and killed . . . .theres no FACTUAL better answer both are horrific and people would probably choose different things . . . the point is both are horrible and abolishing ONE doesnt fix the other in any way
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    Re: Nebraska Abolishes Death Penalty

    IMHO, there are no upsides to the death penalty. It costs a lot of money, it is potentially discriminatory (and I use potentially even though I have a pretty good idea that it is not potential but the reality, especially for older crimes), innocent people get killed and it is immoral also. State sanctioned killing is a slippery slope IMHO especially if some overeager DA with political ambitions gets a hold of the instrument of death penalties or when a sly and very ambitious politician gets involved who wants the death penalty for rape/incest and maybe (like in the war on drugs) is going to ask for mandatory death penalties for some crimes.

    So let people sit in jail for life, it is still a death penalty for people who get life in jail but you let old age or illness do the killing, after which he will stand in front of his maker (if you happen to believe in that) who will judge him then.
    toward that end the tactics and the strategies that people resort to in carrying out this ideologically driven agenda of what they call “pro-life” which is really pro-fetus does not have anything to do with the lives of babies after they’re born or the women who bear them.

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    Re: Nebraska Abolishes Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    huh?
    absolutely not suggesting that at all that would be retarded . . . so sure I can clarify lol
    theres no justification for false punishment whether its life in prison or death


    I was simply pointing out that if a person is worried about false convictions THATS what needs addressed. . . . address how court and convictions work . . address level of evidence for crimes/punishment . . .abolishing the death penalty doesn't fix the horrific injustice of false convictions

    the poster I quoted falsely suggested that "it can be fixed" I simply pointed out that is not true . .. it can not be "fixed" . . . a person may have the subjective opinion that one is better than the other but thats all it is

    . a false conviction ending up with life in prison vs death penalty is like asking a woman if she wants raped everyday until she dies some other way or just rapped once and killed . . . .theres no FACTUAL better answer both are horrific and people would probably choose different things . . . the point is both are horrible and abolishing ONE doesnt fix the other in any way
    The largest problem at hand isn't false convictions, but executions as a result of those false convictions. In any case, while I don't want to speak for Gaius I'm fairly certain the "fix" he's referring to is the ability to overturn a false conviction and give the rest of the victim's life back to him. If the victim has been executed, then there is no "rest of his life" to restitute.

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    Re: Nebraska Abolishes Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    that doesn't fix anything . . especially after decades . . .
    if im locked up for ten years for something i did not do and then I'm freed NOTHING is fixed . . . its broken forever . .
    As I've pointed out several times already life in prison minimizes the damage done by wrongful convictions while still having a functional criminal justice system.

    Maybe I'm crazy but I expect most people would prefer to be released after 20 years than have the government tell their widow "hey sorry we screwed up"
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    Re: Nebraska Abolishes Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    huh?
    absolutely not suggesting that at all that would be retarded . . . so sure I can clarify lol
    theres no justification for false punishment whether its life in prison or death


    I was simply pointing out that if a person is worried about false convictions THATS what needs addressed. . . . address how court and convictions work . . address level of evidence for crimes/punishment . . .abolishing the death penalty doesn't fix the horrific injustice of false convictions

    the poster I quoted falsely suggested that "it can be fixed" I simply pointed out that is not true . .. it can not be "fixed" . . . a person may have the subjective opinion that one is better than the other but thats all it is

    . a false conviction ending up with life in prison vs death penalty is like asking a woman if she wants raped everyday until she dies some other way or just rapped once and killed . . . .theres no FACTUAL better answer both are horrific and people would probably choose different things . . . the point is both are horrible and abolishing ONE doesnt fix the other in any way
    Okay so you don't like the word fixed. Substitute "minimization of damage done."

    You have in no way invalidated the point. Wrongful life in prison is bad. Wrongful execution is worse.

    The system cannot be fixed. No human system system can ever be perfect. So the question really is what is an acceptable error rate. What is the acceptable cost in innocent humans executed to have a death penalty? Is it the current estimated 3-5%? 1%? 0.1%?


    What is acceptable to you?
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    Re: Nebraska Abolishes Death Penalty

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    The largest problem at hand isn't false convictions, but executions as a result of those false convictions. In any case, while I don't want to speak for Gaius I'm fairly certain the "fix" he's referring to is the ability to overturn a false conviction and give the rest of the victim's life back to him. If the victim has been executed, then there is no "rest of his life" to restitute.
    Exactly. Thank you.

    While the victim lives there is the possibility that the wrong is righted. Not so once he's dead.
    Last edited by Gaius46; 05-29-15 at 09:37 AM.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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