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Thread: Swiss Authorities to Investigate FIFA Over 2018 and 2022 World Cup Bids

  1. #11
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    Re: Swiss Authorities to Investigate FIFA Over 2018 and 2022 World Cup Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by SlevinKelevra View Post
    World Cup bids aren't to cities. Anyways, bids are usually awarded almost 8 years out for a reason. Most countries can't handle the infrastructure and logistics of setting this up overnight (~3 years).
    There are about 5 or 6 countries that in theory could pick up 2018 right now, and about 2 or 3 if this drags more than a year. 1 if it drags to 2017.
    5 or 6? I suppose.

    The U.S. could pick it up quick, but we don't have the goal-line tech set up here and that could take a while to get calibrated. We do, however, have the facilities. Brazil could theoretically host it again, since it's fresh off of last year's, as could South Africa, but there's zero chance of either happening. The UK and France could do it. Possibly Germany. That's it for 2018.
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    Re: Swiss Authorities to Investigate FIFA Over 2018 and 2022 World Cup Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Too late to move the 2018 Cup. Not too late to yank the 2022 Cup from Qatar, which was a far more corrupt process.
    I tend to agree. Given the pretty rampant corruption in Russia there was probably also corruption involved there. But at least Russia is less of an obviously wrongheaded choice to organize a world cup.

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    Re: Swiss Authorities to Investigate FIFA Over 2018 and 2022 World Cup Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoVlaming View Post
    I tend to agree. Given the pretty rampant corruption in Russia there was probably also corruption involved there. But at least Russia is less of an obviously wrongheaded choice to organize a world cup.
    Russia's not using slave labor and having hundreds of workers die every few weeks to construct the facilities.
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    Re: Swiss Authorities to Investigate FIFA Over 2018 and 2022 World Cup Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Russia's not using slave labor and having hundreds of workers die every few weeks to construct the facilities.
    No, they haven't carried their nostalgia for Stalin's regime quite that far yet.

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    Re: Swiss Authorities to Investigate FIFA Over 2018 and 2022 World Cup Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    It wasn't easy to find, but your main objection to the US involvement with this particular FIFA investigation is because the US reserves the right to intervene in transactions involving US currency? Heavy handed, no doubt, but jees, let it play out and see how it goes.
    Yes and no. It has to do with the US reserves the right to intervene when money happens to go through US banks. I never said that the money in my example was US dollars.. it was not, it was Euros.

    The points I am trying to make here.

    1.) Trust in the US legal system aint exactly mind-blowing, especially when involving non-Americans. Rail-roading, breaking deals and worse are all too common place. Should I as a football fan trust that the US justice system wont screw this one up? That the people involved will just get a slap over the fingers like other corruption cases have given in the US?

    For example, much of this corruption involves US companies.. why have they not been targeted and raided?

    Look at this list... FIFA Partners (top top sponsors)

    Adidas (German), Gazprom (Russia), Hyundai (South Korean) Coca Cola (US) and Visa (US)

    Official World Cup Sponsors:

    Bud (US.. well now Belgian-Brazilian, but when the sponsorship was started it was US)

    and

    McDonalds (US).

    Why were there no raids on those HQs? They are most certainly involved. Will the US Justice Department actually go after those who gave the bribes as well as those that received them? They dont have a great track record against major US companies..

    2.) That much of the world finance due to the Internet and communications happens to pass through a server or hub that is located in the US.. is that legal jurisdiction for the US to enforce its laws on the rest of the world? In this case it does smell like it is that case, but the information out there is a bit sketchy still. This is more a geo-political motive I admit, but it worries me that me buying something from a country that the US does not like, might mean the local police knock on my door to push a US warrant for something that is perfectly legal here. It has happened before.

    Then there is the fact that places like the UK and others, aka "the rebels" in FIFA have been unable or unwilling to do anything about the corruption... also pisses me off.

    Finally of course the Swiss.. protecting FIFA and other less than respectable peoples and organisations for 100+ years... dont get me started on them. I dont trust them one bit in getting to the bottom of this corruption.

    In the end of the day.. I suspect that these guys might make a deal and the case will disappear.. because the money involved and the companies involved are too big to take down without massive political consequences for governments.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Swiss Authorities to Investigate FIFA Over 2018 and 2022 World Cup Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by LeoVlaming View Post
    I tend to agree. Given the pretty rampant corruption in Russia there was probably also corruption involved there. But at least Russia is less of an obviously wrongheaded choice to organize a world cup.
    No, the Russia World Cup was given in conjunction with a deal between FIFA members ... it is quite interesting actually because the US was involved in this "corruption".

    Originally the bidding was open, but after some deal making, the 2018 cup was left to UEFA members only and the 2022 was left to Asian and North American members. This in turn basically made sure that Russia would get the bid because of the other countries bidding.

    England was DOA.. England will most likley not get another World Cup any time soon. The English have simply pissed off too many people in FIFA over the years to be viable.

    That left 2 joint bids and the attitude among many FIFA board members was and still is, that joint bids are not ideal. Russia was the only non joint bid, so of course Russia got over the line after the first round of voting where England was eliminated. Ironically it seems that the countries that voted for England, then voted for Russia.. odd considering.

    So there basically could not be any corruption in this bidding process, other than the "deal" the US, Australia, Japan and others made in splitting the 2018 and 2022 between Europe and Asia/North America.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Swiss Authorities to Investigate FIFA Over 2018 and 2022 World Cup Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    5 or 6? I suppose.

    The U.S. could pick it up quick, but we don't have the goal-line tech set up here and that could take a while to get calibrated. We do, however, have the facilities. Brazil could theoretically host it again, since it's fresh off of last year's, as could South Africa, but there's zero chance of either happening. The UK and France could do it. Possibly Germany. That's it for 2018.
    my list was USA, Germany, France, UK, barely Italy, and possibly Brazil

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    Re: Swiss Authorities to Investigate FIFA Over 2018 and 2022 World Cup Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Yes and no. It has to do with the US reserves the right to intervene when money happens to go through US banks. I never said that the money in my example was US dollars.. it was not, it was Euros.

    The points I am trying to make here.

    1.) Trust in the US legal system aint exactly mind-blowing, especially when involving non-Americans. Rail-roading, breaking deals and worse are all too common place. Should I as a football fan trust that the US justice system wont screw this one up? That the people involved will just get a slap over the fingers like other corruption cases have given in the US?

    For example, much of this corruption involves US companies.. why have they not been targeted and raided?

    Look at this list... FIFA Partners (top top sponsors)

    Adidas (German), Gazprom (Russia), Hyundai (South Korean) Coca Cola (US) and Visa (US)

    Official World Cup Sponsors:

    Bud (US.. well now Belgian-Brazilian, but when the sponsorship was started it was US)

    and

    McDonalds (US).

    Why were there no raids on those HQs? They are most certainly involved. Will the US Justice Department actually go after those who gave the bribes as well as those that received them? They dont have a great track record against major US companies..

    2.) That much of the world finance due to the Internet and communications happens to pass through a server or hub that is located in the US.. is that legal jurisdiction for the US to enforce its laws on the rest of the world? In this case it does smell like it is that case, but the information out there is a bit sketchy still. This is more a geo-political motive I admit, but it worries me that me buying something from a country that the US does not like, might mean the local police knock on my door to push a US warrant for something that is perfectly legal here. It has happened before.

    Then there is the fact that places like the UK and others, aka "the rebels" in FIFA have been unable or unwilling to do anything about the corruption... also pisses me off.

    Finally of course the Swiss.. protecting FIFA and other less than respectable peoples and organisations for 100+ years... dont get me started on them. I dont trust them one bit in getting to the bottom of this corruption.

    In the end of the day.. I suspect that these guys might make a deal and the case will disappear.. because the money involved and the companies involved are too big to take down without massive political consequences for governments.
    You are incorrect about the transaction taking place in Euros. As I said, it was hard to find the story you referenced: US snubs out legal cigar transaction | The Post. Personally I'd rather the US not do this, but at least complain about the facts of that case. Well, back to the case at hand:

    Do you have anything other than innuendo to back up that the Sponsors did something wrong? FIFA has been screwing with sponsors as well: MasterCard, FIFA settle World Cup sponsor fight | Reuters. Can you identify any stories where the sponsors have done something wrong?

    I think in this case, the US is the perfect stooge to do what the rest of the world hasn't done. Why? Because the US is big enough to matter in the world of FIFA but soccer isn't big enough to matter to the general US population. In other words, FIFA needs the US more than the US needs FIFA. How true is that for other countries?

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    Re: Swiss Authorities to Investigate FIFA Over 2018 and 2022 World Cup Bids

    I think they should exterminate soccer and replace it with real football or even rugby. Given it's lack of offence, it's probably the most over-rated 'sport' in history.
    .
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

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    Re: Swiss Authorities to Investigate FIFA Over 2018 and 2022 World Cup Bids

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    You are incorrect about the transaction taking place in Euros. As I said, it was hard to find the story you referenced: US snubs out legal cigar transaction | The Post. Personally I'd rather the US not do this, but at least complain about the facts of that case. Well, back to the case at hand:
    I stand corrected.. still should not happen. The US dollar is the worlds currency and by doing this it just diminishes it.

    Do you have anything other than innuendo to back up that the Sponsors did something wrong? FIFA has been screwing with sponsors as well: MasterCard, FIFA settle World Cup sponsor fight | Reuters. Can you identify any stories where the sponsors have done something wrong?
    There has been several exposes that put FIFA sponsors in the centre of corruption. The latest is that that NIKE actually set the 1998 Brazil finals squad.. might be true, might not. Point is, in all the documentaries and studies done, FIFA sponsors are up to their eyeballs in being involved in the corruption. It is not "strange" that Gazprom happens to be a FIFA partner now.. Gazprom, who does not sell to the consumer in most countries.

    I think in this case, the US is the perfect stooge to do what the rest of the world hasn't done. Why? Because the US is big enough to matter in the world of FIFA but soccer isn't big enough to matter to the general US population. In other words, FIFA needs the US more than the US needs FIFA. How true is that for other countries?
    On this I actually agree... But again, the main concern for me is how the US justice system works in such high profile cases... or rather does not work. Look at the corruption with Libor.. slap over the fingers so far.. no one charged so far.. and the financial institutions involved who knew perfectly well that it was happening.. getting off cheaply. Do you really think a person like Jamie Diamond will get convicted, let alone arrested and charged for the libor scandal.. a scandal that his company was deeply involved in?

    Having it in the US might be the best of all the evils so to say (think that is the saying).. not great, but better than other countries.
    PeteEU

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