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Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South China

Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

If your claim is true then I'm sure you can produce evidence.

I am indifferent to whether you're sick of anything.

Freedom of flight and maritime navigation is a core vital national interest of the US, supported by centuries of international law.

On the bolded. Well then Jack, if your going to continue to dismiss IL when it runs counter to "US interests" and then assert IL when you need to reign in other nations, you have no credibility.
 
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Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

I very much doubt that the Spratlys are of any such 'vital' national interests to anyone other than the US in their efforts to provoke China into an arms race with the US. I have to say that compared to other historic provocations between nations over the last century this has to be the most pathetically transparent I've witnessed in my 54 years

The Council on Foreign Relations has some advice for US policy makers.

The United States should review its surveillance and reconnaissance activities in the air and waters bordering China's twelve-mile territorial sea and assess the feasibility of reducing their frequency or conducting the operations at a greater distance. Any modification of U.S. close-in surveillance and reconnaissance activities requires assessment of whether those sources are uniquely valuable or other intelligence collection platforms can provide sufficient information about Chinese military developments.

In other words, like me, the CFR is questioning the need for the repeated US provocations to China, just because they can, when there's less provocative ways of gathering intelligence.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

OK, but the Convention on Seas is clear.
I do not see how China can claim within another countries 12 mile limit or their other territorial waters.

Do you realize that the US has not ratified the convention, (UNCLOS) which lends credence to the perception that it only abides by international conventions when doing so aligns with its national interests!!!
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

On the bolded. Well then Jack, if your going to continue to dismiss IL when it runs counter to "US interests" and then assert IL when you need to reign in other nations, you have no credibility.

There is no bolded. IL never trumps national interest for any state any time. In this particular case IL is pertinent because the provisions for freedom of navigation are among the oldest in existence, and have been a vital interest of the US all the way back to the founding of our Republic.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

There is no bolded. IL never trumps national interest for any state any time. In this particular case IL is pertinent because the provisions for freedom of navigation are among the oldest in existence, and have been a vital interest of the US all the way back to the founding of our Republic.

Sorry, there is now. Apparently, you see no authority in IL then, yet you keep pointing to it when you think that China's violating it. Again, you're very inconsistent, hypocritical and as such, not credible.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Do you realize that the US has not ratified the convention, (UNCLOS) which lends credence to the perception that it only abides by international conventions when doing so aligns with its national interests!!!
True, but China has.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

I'm completely aware of the various claims. Note that none of the other nations with claims are building a military installation, and none of them are threatening free use of international territory. Only China. If you would apply the same metric in that area you consistently apply to the US, you might come to a reasonable position. I have no bias against China. You do have a bias against the US however, and you show it here every day Monte.

You really should learn more about this before posting.

Surveillance imagery recently obtained by the Center for Strategic & International Studies (CSIS) shows that in recent years Vietnam has undertaken significant construction in the Spratly Islands, a highly contested area in the South China Sea.
The never-before-published satellite photographs, taken between 2010 and April 30 this year, reveal that Hanoi has been carrying out land reclamation activities on two features in the Spratly archipelago: Sand Cay (title picture) and West London Reef. According to the think tank, Hanoi has added 65,000 square meters to West London Reef and some 21,000 square meters to Sand Cay where it has also developed military facilities.

http://www.dw.de/images-reveal-vietnams-expansion-in-the-south-china-sea/a-18451614

And this is why you guys have credibility issues. You only see a problem when China does this!
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

True, but China has.

On the bolded, so you acknowledge the US's contradiction. And China doesn't believe they have violated it.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Well, if they shouldn't be doing it either, perhaps they need to discontinue it if they expect China to. :roll:

Maybe they should, but you do realize that there's a significant difference between Vietnam threatening others and China threatening others, don't you. I am pleased that you admit that such practices are a threat, though.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

You really should learn more about this before posting.

Surveillance imagery recently obtained by the Center for Strategic & International Studies (CSIS) shows that in recent years Vietnam has undertaken significant construction in the Spratly Islands, a highly contested area in the South China Sea.
The never-before-published satellite photographs, taken between 2010 and April 30 this year, reveal that Hanoi has been carrying out land reclamation activities on two features in the Spratly archipelago: Sand Cay (title picture) and West London Reef. According to the think tank, Hanoi has added 65,000 square meters to West London Reef and some 21,000 square meters to Sand Cay where it has also developed military facilities.

Images reveal Vietnam

And this is why you guys have credibility issues. You only see a problem when China does this!


No. I never said that. You should read the previous post, and reconsider.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

On the bolded, so you acknowledge the US's contradiction. And China doesn't believe they have violated it.

The right to free navigation in international waters is not dependent on UNCLOS.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Sorry, there is now. Apparently, you see no authority in IL then, yet you keep pointing to it when you think that China's violating it. Again, you're very inconsistent, hypocritical and as such, not credible.

Sorry, but I've never said there was no authority in IL. There are times when IL is not determinative, but that's a very different standard. What is interesting to me is that you seem to apply IL only to the US.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

I can't agree with you that China is simply engaged in symbolism.

China's current actions are largely symbolic. The interests or views underlying them are not.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Freedom of navigation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_navigation
Wikipedia
Freedom of navigation (FON), is a principle of customary international law that, apart ... This right is now also codified as article 87(1)a of the 1982 United Nations .... out of Soviet-claimed territorial waters; some observers have called the event ...‎History - ‎United States "Freedom of ... - ‎See also - ‎References

[h=2]United States "Freedom of Navigation" program[/h] The United States' Freedom of Navigation program challenges territorial claims on the world's oceans and airspace that are considered excessive by the United States, using diplomatic protests and/or by challenge. The United States position is to insist that all nations must obey the international law of the sea as stated by the UN Law of the Sea Convention, although the United States has not formally ratified the treaty.[SUP][8][/SUP] Some coastal states make claims that the United States see as inconsistent with international law, which, if unchallenged, would limit navigational freedoms of the vessels and aircraft of the U.S. and other countries.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]
On several occasions, U.S. armed forces have conducted operations in areas claimed by other countries, such as naval operations in the Gulf of Sidra in the 1980s. Throughout the years U.S. forces have been performing "Freedom of Navigation" operations in the Straits of Gibraltar, Strait of Hormuz, Straits of Malacca, and the Indonesian Archipelago, the Black Sea under the name 'Silver Fox',.[SUP][9][/SUP]
One of the notable operations conducted as part of Freedom of Navigation program[SUP][10][/SUP] was performed by USS Yorktown, during which, on February 12, 1988 she was "nudged" by Soviet frigate Bezzavetny in an attempt to divert the vessel out of Soviet-claimed territorial waters; some observers[SUP][who?][/SUP] have called the event "the last incident of the Cold War."[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]
In 2014, China Youth Daily called the American program an infringement of China's "rights" to "reclaim" the South China Sea and East China Sea.[SUP][11][/SUP]
[h=2][/h]
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South China

them's fightin' words. let's all blow each other up over some islands.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

them's fightin' words. let's all blow each other up over some islands.

Freedom of flight and maritime navigation.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Freedom of flight and maritime navigation.

whooptee ****.

if you want to fight China, stop going to walmart.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

whooptee ****.

if you want to fight China, stop going to walmart.

Freedom of navigation is a core vital interest of the U.S. for which we have fought ever since the Barbary pirates.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Maybe they should, but you do realize that there's a significant difference between Vietnam threatening others and China threatening others, don't you. I am pleased that you admit that such practices are a threat, though.

Wrong. China has the strongest title to the islands and as such, building on their islands isn't a threat to anyone. And if you think that it's wrong for China to build on disputed territory, then you must believe that it's wrong for Vietnam to do so. Now what's the big difference between Vietnam and China that would excuse Vietnam for building on disputed islands, but not China?
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

No. I never said that. You should read the previous post, and reconsider.

It's bolded in your post I quoted dude. You denied that any of the other claimants had built any military infrastructure on the islands and you were wrong. Wrong because you've got a bias against China and didn't bother to even check to see if anybody else had committed the infraction you accuse China of.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

I had thought earlier in our debate that they stayed at 13 Miles distance, but this morning I saw a photo of one of the islands in question that was taken by the Posioden (not sure of the spelling on that plane) that appears to be nearly directly over it, so I don't know, that could change things. And I already stated yesterday that I believe that if truly in international airspace, they can be told to leave, but of course the US isn't obliged to. And of course there's history of baiting, provoking and creating false flag events, documented.

I continue to await your evidence for your claim about "baiting, provoking etc.":waiting:
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

The right to free navigation in international waters is not dependent on UNCLOS.

I didn't say that it did. Do you acknowledge that the US is pushing China on a convention that they have conveniently not ratified??
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

I didn't say that it did. Do you acknowledge that the US is pushing China on a convention that they have conveniently not ratified??


Please see #414. It is US policy to uphold UNCLOS regardless of non-ratification.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

I continue to await your evidence for your claim about "baiting, provoking etc.":waiting:

We've been through all that with Germany, Japan, Vietnam, and your in denial of all of it, so what's the point. I'm still waiting for you to prove your claim that China's placed an artillery piece on their island to deny access to the shipping lanes on merchant ships.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

We've been through all that with Germany, Japan, Vietnam, and your in denial of all of it, so what's the point. I'm still waiting for you to prove your claim that China's placed an artillery piece on their island to deny access to the shipping lanes on merchant ships.

Ah. So you have no evidence. Just another anti-American lie, as I suspected.
 
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