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Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South China

Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

That sounds like it's not certain that as of today, even one of these things is operating yet. I wonder when the Japanese and South Koreans will start building some of their own in response to the potential threat. If I were in their position, I would think that American nuclear umbrella had developed quite a few holes during the past six years.

From the article:

In 2008 the United States Department of Defense concluded that the Type 094 was not yet operational.[6] One was operational in 2010,[1] three in 2013,[7] and four in 2015.[2]
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

I really don't care what Obama and Hagel have to say about a dispute amongst six countries in Asia. Btw, you do realise that there are six countries with overlapping claims. Meaning that this isn't China against five others, but that the others have disputes amongst themselves. Just so you'll know, Taiwan claims ALL of the Spratlys. Where's that leave Taiwan with Vietnam, Brunei, Malaysia, etc.?


Have you figured out how the Philippines Vietnam and Japan have already made an alliance, and did you figure out which ones called on the US for Assurances.

Now have you figured out what the Chinese have done with their own actions to cause a problem wherein it affects others outside that region.....as well as other nations in that region. Its really not that hard with any understanding.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Reminds me somewhat of how Japan conceived, in the 1930's, of the vast areas that were to be under its control.

If you believe some here, it's all perfectly legitimate. If we had imperial designs, all of it would've been ours following WWII. But the Chinese are simply establishing a "sphere of influence", as if anyone doubted that they aren't the economic and military power in the region. We are to believe though, that they are under threat of attack from the Philippines and Vietnam. It's hard to stop laughing about that.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

If you believe some here, it's all perfectly legitimate. If we had imperial designs, all of it would've been ours following WWII. But the Chinese are simply establishing a "sphere of influence", as if anyone doubted that they aren't the economic and military power in the region. We are to believe though, that they are under threat of attack from the Philippines and Vietnam. It's hard to stop laughing about that.

Exactly!:lamo:rofl:laughat::2rofll::giggle1:
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

To the bolded. And you know that how???

Their present actions. Read by the people, and face.The news reports from the President. Past actions when stirring up the nationalist population, almost preparing for some sort of hostilities refer to the Japan issue. The fact that the Philippines has **** all in the way of a military.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

What portions of any of the others are grounded?

Look at the maps, they actually claim other countries territorial waters. You are severely biased on this due to past USFP.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Heya JF. :2wave: Vietnam, and the Philippines with Japan have all given the invite to the US. Moreover this global economic hub can't be allowed to become like the ME. Since it will affect everyone.



Philippines offers U.S. forces access to military bases

The Philippines has agreed to allow the United States access to its military bases under a new security deal being negotiated by the two allies, amid mounting concern over China's increasing assertiveness in the disputed waters of the South China Sea. The United States plans to "rebalance" its forces in Asia-Pacific region, and has similar arrangements with Australia and Singapore, as part of its strategy to counter China. The new agreement on enhanced defense cooperation will allow the United States increased deployment of troops, ships, aircraft and humanitarian equipment.

The dispute revolves round competing claims over the Spratlys, a group of 250 uninhabitable islets spread over 165,000 square miles.

On Sunday, three Chinese coast guard ships stopped two Filipino civilian vessels from delivering food, water and construction materials to troops based on a ship that was deliberately run aground on reef in the Spratlys in 1999 to reinforce the Philippines' claim. Manila called the Chinese actions "a clear and urgent threat to the rights and interests of the Philippines". Under the draft accord, the Philippines will allow U.S. forces joint use of facilities in several military bases like Manila, Clark, Palawan, Cebu, Nueva Ecija, and La Union, a military official with knowledge of the negotiations.....snip~

Philippines offers U.S. forces access to military bases | Reuters
Many in that area are concerned about a resurgent and powerful China.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

And in that you are wrong. The US flew in international airspace. China reacted belligerently.

I agreed to its legality, I was contesting its prudence and necessity. Satellites can easily determine what's taking place on the islands. The US should avoid unnecessary provocations.

The United States should avoid inadvertently encouraging the claimants to engage in confrontational behavior. For example, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's reference in November 2011 to the South China Sea as the West Philippine Sea could have unintended consequences such as emboldening Manila to antagonize China rather than it seeking to peacefully settle their differences.

Armed Clash in the South China Sea - Council on Foreign Relations
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

I agreed to its legality, I was contesting its prudence and necessity. Satellites can easily determine what's taking place on the islands. The us should avoid unnecessary provocations.

The United States should avoid inadvertently encouraging the claimants to engage in confrontational behavior. For example, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's reference in November 2011 to the South China Sea as the West Philippine Sea could have unintended consequences such as emboldening Manila to antagonize China rather than it seeking to peacefully settle their differences.

Armed Clash in the South China Sea - Council on Foreign Relations
As should China. They are the ones pushing the ball.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

I'm not certain, while the Chinese were drawing lines, why they stopped where they did. I mean, there's Australia, Indonesia, Malaysia, and a lot of other 'ia's' they might as well claim while they're at it. We're just fortunate they didn't claim parts of the U.S., although if they claimed California, it'd be just another "ia", and not that many would complain.

Greetings, humbolt. :2wave:

According to what I recall from my college days spent studying history (which is by no means cast in concrete ), :mrgreen: China has claimed ownership of the Sprattlys since the 1800s. At the end of WW2, Japan "returned" the Sprattlys to China, with French backing and allied approval. China's move now is unusual, but it's been rumored for quite a while that this might be coming. Is this a "triple Dog dare you" message to the US, and is this really all up to us? It seems more a matter for the UN, IMO. Interesting....
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

I agreed to its legality, I was contesting its prudence and necessity. Satellites can easily determine what's taking place on the islands. The US should avoid unnecessary provocations.

The United States should avoid inadvertently encouraging the claimants to engage in confrontational behavior. For example, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's reference in November 2011 to the South China Sea as the West Philippine Sea could have unintended consequences such as emboldening Manila to antagonize China rather than it seeking to peacefully settle their differences.

Armed Clash in the South China Sea - Council on Foreign Relations

Of all the silliness posted by you, this may be the topper. There is more chance that I will travel to Mars than that Manila will threaten Beijing.

The US sails in international waters and flies in international air space to exercise (and thereby preserve) free navigation rights. To fail to do so grants the aggressor, China, its objective.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Of course the purpose of having a very strong force like the U.S. has is to make sure no other nation ever even thinks about sending one of the things our way. As someone who lived through the Cuban Crisis in October, 1962, nothing like that bothers me much. What's remarkable, in hindsight, is how determined most people were to stand behind President Kennedy in whatever he might need to do--and the Soviet leadership knew that. But that was in those hokey old days when it was hard to find Americans who weren't proud of the United States. If we faced something like that now, probably about a third of the country would be pulling for the enemy. Now, though, we would have President Pinprick at the helm--and we all know Kennedy had nothing on him when it comes to guts.

From the way you speak, I would wager a guess that you would be in the 1/3 of the country pulling for the enemy.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Many in that area are concerned about a resurgent and powerful China.


That is true.....of that there is no doubt.



Vietnam and Philippines agree to oppose China.....


"The two sides are determined to oppose China's violations and call on countries and the international community to continue strongly condemning China and demanding China to immediately end the above said violations," he said.

Analysts have said Vietnam might now file its own appeal or join Manila's legal challenge against China.....snip~

Vietnam and Philippines agree to oppose China

6a2a2cf4dcadc813540f6a7067001791.jpg
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

As should China. They are the ones pushing the ball.

I've looked closely at the Spratlys history. It appears very clear to me that China has the superior claim. I also think that by one of your earlier posts, that you're lumping all of China's claims with regard to the entire SCS and those of the Spratlys (and to an extent the Paracels) whereas, I'm focused on their claims to the Spratlys which appear clearly legitimate. Btw, if you do think that China's claims to the Spratlys are stepping on others feet, do you realise that Taiwan also claims all of the Spratlys??
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

What are you talking about, that's what people continue to claim. In fact at least three posters have offered it up as a legitimate excuse for the US to stick its nose in another dispute in the Asian region that involves six nations, none of which are the US!

When building islands in international waters some 600 miles from your mainland and claiming the waters and airspace surrounding it as Chinese sovereign property, it seems logical some global issues would arise.

Logical people would see that I should think.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Of all the silliness posted by you, this may be the topper. There is more chance that I will travel to Mars than that Manila will threaten Beijing.

The US sails in international waters and flies in international air space to exercise (and thereby preserve) free navigation rights. To fail to do so grants the aggressor, China, its objective.

Who said Manila would threaten Beijing??? Wtf are you talking about. I SAID THAT THE US SHOULD AVOID UNNECESSARY PROVOCATIONS AGAINST CHINA!!!!!!!!!!!!

I then posted for you a comment from the CFR in which they cautioned the US against stupid statements like Hillary's, that could embolden Manila to engage in a provocation of its own, expecting something from the US that may not be there.

Jack, why don't you read and comprehend before you start banging on your keyboard, hmm?

Nevertheless, an apparent gap exists between American views of U.S. obligations and Manila's expectations. In mid-June 2011, a Filipino presidential spokesperson stated that in the event of armed conflict with China, Manila expected the United States would come to its aid. Statements by senior U.S. officials may have inadvertently led Manila to conclude that the United States would provide military assistance if China attacked Filipino forces in the disputed Spratly Islands.

http://www.cfr.org/world/armed-clash-south-china-sea/p27883
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

I've looked closely at the Spratlys history. It appears very clear to me that China has the superior claim. I also think that by one of your earlier posts, that you're lumping all of China's claims with regard to the entire SCS and those of the Spratlys (and to an extent the Paracels) whereas, I'm focused on their claims to the Spratlys which appear clearly legitimate. Btw, if you do think that China's claims to the Spratlys are stepping on others feet, do you realise that Taiwan also claims all of the Spratlys??
Oh yes, and they agreed years ago on this.
It is China that has ramped up the rhetoric.
Lastly- Why do they not take it to the UN?
Because they will not win all of their claim
Look at the maps, they are claiming territorial waters of other countries.
How do you justify that?
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Who said Manila would threaten Beijing??? Wtf are you talking about. I SAID THAT THE US SHOULD AVOID UNNECESSARY PROVOCATIONS AGAINST CHINA!!!!!!!!!!!!

I then posted for you a comment from the CFR in which they cautioned the US against stupid statements like Hillary's, that could embolden Manila to engage in a provocation of its own, expecting something from the US that may not be there.

Jack, why don't you read and comprehend before you start banging on your keyboard, hmm?

Nevertheless, an apparent gap exists between American views of U.S. obligations and Manila's expectations. In mid-June 2011, a Filipino presidential spokesperson stated that in the event of armed conflict with China, Manila expected the United States would come to its aid. Statements by senior U.S. officials may have inadvertently led Manila to conclude that the United States would provide military assistance if China attacked Filipino forces in the disputed Spratly Islands.

Armed Clash in the South China Sea - Council on Foreign Relations

The US is bound by treaty to support the Philippines against Chinese aggression.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Μολὼν λαβέ;1064662810 said:
When building islands in international waters some 600 miles from your mainland and claiming the waters and airspace surrounding it as Chinese sovereign property, it seems logical some global issues would arise.

Logical people would see that I should think.

China has the soundest title to the Spratlys of any of the other claimants.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

The US is bound by treaty to support the Philippines against Chinese aggression.

The US is not bound to support Manila in the event of Filipino aggression.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Who said Manila would threaten Beijing??? Wtf are you talking about. I SAID THAT THE US SHOULD AVOID UNNECESSARY PROVOCATIONS AGAINST CHINA!!!!!!!!!!!!

I then posted for you a comment from the CFR in which they cautioned the US against stupid statements like Hillary's, that could embolden Manila to engage in a provocation of its own, expecting something from the US that may not be there.

Jack, why don't you read and comprehend before you start banging on your keyboard, hmm?

Nevertheless, an apparent gap exists between American views of U.S. obligations and Manila's expectations. In mid-June 2011, a Filipino presidential spokesperson stated that in the event of armed conflict with China, Manila expected the United States would come to its aid. Statements by senior U.S. officials may have inadvertently led Manila to conclude that the United States would provide military assistance if China attacked Filipino forces in the disputed Spratly Islands.

Armed Clash in the South China Sea - Council on Foreign Relations
How should China conduct themselves.
They agreed years ago to a process.
That is gone as they reneged.
They have increased the rhetoric of war.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

Oh yes, and they agreed years ago on this.
It is China that has ramped up the rhetoric.
Lastly- Why do they not take it to the UN?
Because they will not win all of their claim
Look at the maps, they are claiming territorial waters of other countries.
How do you justify that?

China has held title to the Spratlys since before the UN ever existed. Why should they seek legitimacy from the UN?
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

From the article:

OK. It would be interesting to know how fully operational they are. Going out a couple hundred miles and then putting back into port after a couple weeks because something sprang a leak is not the same as patrolling halfway over the world, reliably, for six months at a time. In any case, I don't see any cause for the U.S. military or the American people to be alarmed.

In October, 1962, the USSR was right on the verge of having eighty or so missiles armed with warheads of at least one megaton each ready to launch at the U.S. from Cuba. There would have been only a couple hours' warning of an attack on our cities, which, given their limited accuracy, would have been the only practical targets for them. They would have been easier to destroy preemptively than missiles on subs, but not by all that much.

But superiority in numbers, quality, or both counts, even with nuclear missiles. Assuming they are under the control of rational people--and unless that can be assumed no meaningful calculations of risk are possible--a small force of missiles is not much use against a much larger one. Given another week or so, the Soviets would have been able to kill millions of Americans with the weapons they had in Cuba. But even if they had struck the U.S. with every nuclear missile they had, both there and in the Soviet Union, they could not have destroyed many U.S. missiles, if any. They had too few, and they were not accurate enough. And any such attack would have guaranteed a far larger counterstrike that would have permanently destroyed the USSR and killed tens of millions of its citizens.

I'm sure China wants to base ballistic missiles on subs for the same reason the U.S. did--because it prevents them from being destroyed in a preemptive attack. That increases the cost of any such attack, because any nation that launched one could be sure it would suffer enormous losses from a counterstrike.
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

How should China conduct themselves.
They agreed years ago to a process.
That is gone as they reneged.
They have increased the rhetoric of war.

I disagree. But it is clear, that once again, as it never seems to fail, we have folks, some of which aren't even American, fully prepared for Americans to shed their blood, this time to dispute insignificant islands hundreds of miles off of the Chinese mainland that are thousands of miles from US shores. :roll:
 
Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

The US is not bound to support Manila in the event of Filipino aggression.

What about Chinese aggression?
 
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