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Thread: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South China

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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Ok, you've already condemn China for building on the islands as provocative and aggressive. I guess this here was a veiled attempt at acknowledging that Vietnam is also being threatening and aggressive!!!!
    Building on islands they own and increasing the size of islands they own is one thing.
    But this ain't that one thing.
    They want an island(s) to develop, likely for an eventual military installation, in what should be international waters but won't be once they claim it.
    You're okay with that?
    Why?
    "One very rewarding opposition strategy has always been to make the mundane look unsavory and draw distinctions with the same behavior by their own team."

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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    On the bolded, so you acknowledge the US's contradiction. And China doesn't believe they have violated it.
    Correct and China is obligated by the Treaty. What is the problem with that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Hillary is the only defense I or anyone else needs.

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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Ok, you've already condemn China for building on the islands as provocative and aggressive. I guess this here was a veiled attempt at acknowledging that Vietnam is also being threatening and aggressive!!!!
    Upping the game


    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/01/wo....html?ref=asia

    Adm. Sun Jianguo, deputy chief of staff of the People’s Liberation Army, speaking at a regional security forum in Singapore, said that China had not definitely said it would create a so-called air defense identification zone, but that any decision would be based on an aerial threat assessment and the maritime security situation. He also said other nations should not overemphasize the issue.

    The creation of an air defense zone would be viewed by the United States and Southeast Asian nations as a huge provocation. In recent years, foreign officials have speculated whether one of Beijing’s next moves in the South China Sea would be to set up such a zone, which would further solidify China’s military presence in the waters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Hillary is the only defense I or anyone else needs.

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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    No. It's indicative of China's lack of respect for agreements which they sign and their intent to aggressively and militarily claim what they couldn't by convention. It doesn't speak well in support of your argument that China is the abused nation here. It appears to be the opposite, in fact. Lol, indeed.
    Want to mention vietnams lack of respect for violating the same agreements by building military infrastructure on the islands. Ignoring that doesn't bode well for your argument.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    China may well have the most meritorious claim to the Spratlys. There's little doubt the other players wish to keep us engaged. Our interest, however, is limited to acceptance of international law and maintaining free passage through the area. This is something we have historically done since our founding and we will continue to do it. It's not, as has been characterized here by some, China bashing. All of the overlapping claimed EEZ zones in the area are a problem, but China is the one nation making such a claim that can legitimately threaten that free passage.
    The problem is, that is a strawman argument, not unlike such arguments we heard before concerning what ifs. The US is building a massive base at Guam, which you will undoubtedly dismiss the significance of, but it's not lost on China. Nor is it lost on China that the US has been sucking up to its long time enemy Vietnam, in an attempt to regain use of their deep water port. Nor did they miss the both literal and symbolic stationing of US troops in northern Australia, accompanied with a direct provocative speech promising our regional ally's containment of China. Obviously the US is spoiling for a fight with China.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    The problem is, that is a strawman argument, not unlike such arguments we heard before concerning what ifs. The US is building a massive base at Guam, which you will undoubtedly dismiss the significance of, but it's not lost on China. Nor is it lost on China that the US has been sucking up to its long time enemy Vietnam, in an attempt to regain use of their deep water port. Nor did they miss the both literal and symbolic stationing of US troops in northern Australia, accompanied with a direct provocative speech promising our regional ally's containment of China. Obviously the US is spoiling for a fight with China.
    Uh huh. There's a longer game at play here, and you're on the wrong side of it. The US has dismissed no agreement for peaceful settlement of disputes. China has.

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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    The US claim to Hawaii is not in question here.
    If you're going to question the manner by which China has expanded itself, then the manner in which the US has expanded itself is very legitimately in question. I do understand how you would want to avoid that inconvenient point. China fought an enemy that traveled half way around the world to take possession of the Spratly islands, and beat them, and forced the Sino-French land boundary treaty of 1887 between Vietnam, France and China, in which CHINA is recognized as the rightful owner of the Spratly's! Then they lost them to the Japanese in 1939, who retained control until 1947 at which time they were returned back to China. Earlier in the thread I posted a list of international recognition that the Spratly's, are indeed Chinese possessions. Not all that to have the US round up its ally's in the region to start with their own provocative and aggressive behaviors of land reclamation, troop and artillery placement in order to point to Chinese aggressions when they respond exactly as should be expected. And all because of the fringe rights paranoia that US sole superpower status is slipping. Containment of China is the new agenda and the mongering is being ratcheted up, nearly every GOP presidential contender has invoked the horrors of China, the weakness of the president, and the need for us to CONFRONT THE ENEMY!!!!!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    If you're going to question the manner by which China has expanded itself, then the manner in which the US has expanded itself is very legitimately in question. I do understand how you would want to avoid that inconvenient point. China fought an enemy that traveled half way around the world to take possession of the Spratly islands, and beat them, and forced the Sino-French land boundary treaty of 1887 between Vietnam, France and China, in which CHINA is recognized as the rightful owner of the Spratly's! Then they lost them to the Japanese in 1939, who retained control until 1947 at which time they were returned back to China. Earlier in the thread I posted a list of international recognition that the Spratly's, are indeed Chinese possessions. Not all that to have the US round up its ally's in the region to start with their own provocative and aggressive behaviors of land reclamation, troop and artillery placement in order to point to Chinese aggressions when they respond exactly as should be expected. And all because of the fringe rights paranoia that US sole superpower status is slipping. Containment of China is the new agenda and the mongering is being ratcheted up, nearly every GOP presidential contender has invoked the horrors of China, the weakness of the president, and the need for us to CONFRONT THE ENEMY!!!!!
    If not for the US, most of China would be speaking Japanese today. I haven't declared China our enemy. China is the country bragging about how much of the US is within their nuclear targeting range. It would seem that China has declared the US the enemy, and not the opposite. So yes, we are watching them and we are taking steps to avoid the military eventuality the Chinese seem to favor. It's called prudence. And I should also mention that unlike China, we haven't killed an estimated 30-45 million people. The US is certainly is far from perfect, but we have a higher regard for human life than that, and I land on that side of things every time.

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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    The problem is, that is a strawman argument, not unlike such arguments we heard before concerning what ifs. The US is building a massive base at Guam, which you will undoubtedly dismiss the significance of, but it's not lost on China. Nor is it lost on China that the US has been sucking up to its long time enemy Vietnam, in an attempt to regain use of their deep water port. Nor did they miss the both literal and symbolic stationing of US troops in northern Australia, accompanied with a direct provocative speech promising our regional ally's containment of China. Obviously the US is spoiling for a fight with China.
    Relations with Vietnam have been on the mend for years.
    Guam, US territory.

    And what has the US done, stated repeatedly for all to negotiate. Yet China backed out of multilateral discussions.
    China is clearly attempting to shut the US out of Asia.
    Do you have a link where the US stated clearly they wanted China contained?
    Stationing a few thousand troops in Australia means exactly squat. 1200 now and max out at 2500 in 2017. Still squat.
    As to the Philippines, the base after if was gone caused a major hole in the Philippine economy.
    The Philippines want US protection, and why should the US refuse.
    China is preparing for war with the US.
    The US's economic future is in Asia. Being cut out undermines the US.
    Therefore it is a strategic interest of the US.

    China's leader is telling the People's Liberation Army to prepare for war
    Over the last several months, Chinese leader Xi Jinping and the Chinese Communist Party have repeatedly exhorted the People's Liberation Army to "be ready to win a war." Xi has repeatedly called for greater military modernization, increased training, and enhanced overall readiness of the Chinese army, navy, and air force.

    These repeated calls have alarmed China's neighbors from New Delhi to Washington. The question on everyone's mind: what is all this preparation for?
    Interesting article.

    China and the United States are preparing for war | China Daily Mail
    At a Nov. 12 news conference in Beijing, General Secretary of the Communist Party Xi Jinping and U.S. President Barack Obama agreed to notify the other side before major military activities, and to develop a set of rules of behaviour for sea and air encounters, in order to avoid military confrontations in Asia. “It’s incredibly important that we avoid inadvertent escalation,” Ben Rhodes, a U.S. deputy national security advisor, was quoted by the Wall Street Journal as saying. An “accidental circumstance,” he said, could “lead into something that could precipitate conflict.”

    Should we really be worried about war between the United States and China? Yes. Over the last four decades of studying China, I have spoken with hundreds of members of China’s military, the People’s Liberation Army (PLA), and read countless Chinese military journals and strategy articles. Chinese military and political leaders believe that their country is at the centre of American war planning. In other words, Beijing believes that the United States is readying itself for the possibility of a conflict with China — and that it must prepare for that eventuality.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Hillary is the only defense I or anyone else needs.

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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Wrong, you don't beat your wife but point out that you pay your taxes and get to work on time therefore claim you do more good than harm.
    Now I understand our difference. I believe the US, with some missteps and bad acts to be sure, has done more good than harm, and more good than any country in history. Exceptional indeed.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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