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Thread: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South China

  1. #421
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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I had thought earlier in our debate that they stayed at 13 Miles distance, but this morning I saw a photo of one of the islands in question that was taken by the Posioden (not sure of the spelling on that plane) that appears to be nearly directly over it, so I don't know, that could change things. And I already stated yesterday that I believe that if truly in international airspace, they can be told to leave, but of course the US isn't obliged to. And of course there's history of baiting, provoking and creating false flag events, documented.
    I continue to await your evidence for your claim about "baiting, provoking etc."
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  2. #422
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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The right to free navigation in international waters is not dependent on UNCLOS.
    I didn't say that it did. Do you acknowledge that the US is pushing China on a convention that they have conveniently not ratified??
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  3. #423
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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I didn't say that it did. Do you acknowledge that the US is pushing China on a convention that they have conveniently not ratified??

    Please see #414. It is US policy to uphold UNCLOS regardless of non-ratification.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  4. #424
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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    I continue to await your evidence for your claim about "baiting, provoking etc."
    We've been through all that with Germany, Japan, Vietnam, and your in denial of all of it, so what's the point. I'm still waiting for you to prove your claim that China's placed an artillery piece on their island to deny access to the shipping lanes on merchant ships.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  5. #425
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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    We've been through all that with Germany, Japan, Vietnam, and your in denial of all of it, so what's the point. I'm still waiting for you to prove your claim that China's placed an artillery piece on their island to deny access to the shipping lanes on merchant ships.
    Ah. So you have no evidence. Just another anti-American lie, as I suspected.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  6. #426
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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Sorry, but I've never said there was no authority in IL. There are times when IL is not determinative, but that's a very different standard. What is interesting to me is that you seem to apply IL only to the US.
    If there are times when IL isn't determinative, then it's arbitrary, and as such toothless, and may as well not even be invoked. One big difference between the US and other countries is the pretentious facade of righteousness. The shinning city on a hill, defender of truth, freedom, democracy and all of the other "wholesome" adjectives we hear regularly to describe American exceptionalism. Why not just concede that its a dog eat dog world. If adhering to IL in one situation is advantageous fine and if not in another that's fine too. Admit that borders are sovereign when it's ours, or some other nation we have an interest in protecting, (Ukraine) But if it's Iraq, Pakistan, Syria or Yemen, then not so much. Dictators are bad, unless they're our dictators, and I could go on endlessly with that, but you should get the point. "There is none righteous, no not one"
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  7. #427
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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    China's current actions are largely symbolic. The interests or views underlying them are not.
    I'll go with you on that.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Freedom of navigation is a core vital interest of the U.S. for which we have fought ever since the Barbary pirates.
    tell me what you think the US should do about these islands. let's hear the plan. include what you're personally willing to pay in extra taxes to keep China from claiming the islands. will you stop buying Chinese made goods until the islands have been returned to their rightful owners?

  9. #429
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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    If there are times when IL isn't determinative, then it's arbitrary, and as such toothless, and may as well not even be invoked. One big difference between the US and other countries is the pretentious facade of righteousness. The shinning city on a hill, defender of truth, freedom, democracy and all of the other "wholesome" adjectives we hear regularly to describe American exceptionalism. Why not just concede that its a dog eat dog world. If adhering to IL in one situation is advantageous fine and if not in another that's fine too. Admit that borders are sovereign when it's ours, or some other nation we have an interest in protecting, (Ukraine) But if it's Iraq, Pakistan, Syria or Yemen, then not so much. Dictators are bad, unless they're our dictators, and I could go on endlessly with that, but you should get the point. "There is none righteous, no not one"
    And yet, on balance, we do more good than harm, and more good than any other country.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  10. #430
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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    tell me what you think the US should do about these islands. let's hear the plan. include what you're personally willing to pay in extra taxes to keep China from claiming the islands. will you stop buying Chinese made goods until the islands have been returned to their rightful owners?
    We should do nothing about the islands. We should continue to exercise our free navigation rights.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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