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Thread: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South China

  1. #231
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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Polgara????????? This is NOTHING NEW

    The People's Republic of China (PRC) claims all of the Spratly Islands as part of China, and has had a long naval presence in the territories.

    The Republic of China (ROC), which ruled mainland China before 1949 and has been confined to Taiwan since 1949, also claims all of the Spratly Islands.

    Basis for PRC's and ROC's claimsEdit
    China claims to have discovered the islands in the Han Dynasty in 2 BC. The islands were claimed to have been marked on maps compiled during the time of Eastern Han dynasty and Eastern Wu (one of the Three Kingdoms). Since the Yuan dynasty in the 12th century, several islands that may be the Spratlys have been labelled as Chinese territory,[60] followed by the Ming Dynasty[61] and the Qing dynasty from the 13th to 19th Century.[62] In 1755,[62][63] archaeological surveys the remains of Chinese pottery and coins have been found in the islands and are cited as proof for the PRC claim, but they are more likely to have come from shipwrecks of passing Chinese junks.[64]

    Chinese fishermen have fished around the islands since 200 BC.[34]

    In the 19th century, Europeans found that Chinese fishermen from Hainan annually sojourned on the Spratly islands for part of the year, while in 1877 it was the British who launched the first modern legal claims to the Spratlys.[32][33]

    When the Spratlys and Paracels were being surveyed by Germany in 1883, China issued protests against them. The 1887 Chinese-Vietnamese Boundary convention signed between France and China after the Sino-French War said that China was the owner of the Spratly and Paracel islands.[34] China sent naval forces on inspection tours in 1902 and 1907 and placed flags and markers on the islands. The Qing dynasty's successor state, the Republic of China, claimed the Spratly and Paracel islands under the jurisdiction of Hainan.[35]

    The Spratlys and the Paracels were conquered by Japan in 1939. Japan administered the Spratlys via Taiwan's jurisdiction and the Paracels via Hainan's jurisdiction.[32] The Paracels and Spratlys were handed over to Republic of China control from Japan after the 1945 surrender of Japan,[36] since the Allied powers assigned the Republic of China to receive Japanese surrenders in that area.[35]

    After WW2 ended, the Republic of China was the "most active claimaint". The Republic of China then garrisoned Itu Aba (Taiping) island in 1946 and posted Chinese flags and markers on it along with Woody island in the Paracels, France tried, but failed to make them leave Woody island.[32] The aim of the Republic of China was to block the French claims.[35][37] The Republic of China drew up the map showing the U shaped claim on the entire South China Sea, showing the Spratly and Paracels in Chinese territory, in 1947.[35]

    Spratly Islands dispute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    My point is after all this time, why are they being provocative now? The world is in enough turmoil already! Do they not believe they will get a fair hearing on ownership by whoever decides these things, and they're just making themselves visible to remind everyone they're not a force to be ignored?

  2. #232
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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Greetings, Jack.

    Exceptionally enlightening link on China!

    While we've been focused on barbarians like ISIS in the ME, and Boko Haram in Africa; we now have Russia trying to expand their influence in the Crimea and the Ukraine; and we're trying to negotiate with Iran on a nuclear deal that no one likes! Meanwhile, China has been busy inking deals for oil, gas, uranium, gold and other commodities with countries around the globe, and now they decide it's time to further their plans on the Spratlys, causing unrest in the South China Sea area? In addition, they hold at least a trillion dollars of our debt. Too many "coincidences" happening lately to suit me! Why is all this converging now, and for what purpose - to overwhelm us? *just musing* :
    Greetings Polgara.

    Why? Weak American leadership.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

  3. #233
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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    My point is after all this time, why are they being provocative now? The world is in enough turmoil already! Do they not believe they will get a fair hearing on ownership by whoever decides these things, and they're just making themselves visible to remind everyone they're not a force to be ignored?
    Ok, I guess you didn't read my post you quoted or you'd have seen the history of China's ownership of the Spratlys, long before the UN even existed. They will likely tell the UN to **** off just as the US would under similar circumstances.

    It's not being provocative to build stuff on your property. You really can't see that the "pivot to Asia" is a policy of Chinese containment?? I showed you just some of China's sound historical claims and possession of the Spratlys. I can tell you one thing, taking on China, even in a win in the end, will look NOTHING like taking on Hussein, or Gaddafi!! Why the insistence amongst people to push this over uninhabitable islands that all added together are but a couple hundred acres???
    Last edited by Montecresto; 05-28-15 at 10:16 PM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  4. #234
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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It's not being provocative to build stuff on your property. You really can't see that the "pivot to Asia" is a policy of Chinese containment?? I showed you just some of China's sound historical claims and possession of the Spratlys. I can tell you one thing, taking on China, even in a win in the end, will look NOTHING like taking on Hussein, or Gaddafi!! Why the insistence amongst people to push this over uninhabitable islands that all added together are but a couple hundred acres???
    No one cares about the islands. The issue is freedom of navigation.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Ok, I guess you didn't read my post you quoted or you'd have seen the history of China's ownership of the Spratlys, long before the UN even existed. They will likely tell the UN to **** off just as the US would under similar circumstances.

    It's not being provocative to build stuff on your property. You really can't see that the "pivot to Asia" is a policy of Chinese containment?? I showed you just some of China's sound historical claims and possession of the Spratlys. I can tell you one thing, taking on China, even in a win in the end, will look NOTHING like taking on Hussein, or Gaddafi!! Why the insistence amongst people to push this over uninhabitable islands that all added together are but a couple hundred acres???
    I certainly did read your post! I just wasn't aware they had claimed those islands so very long ago. I love history, but China hasn't been covered as extensively as the Egyptians, as an example, but I was astonished at seeing the thousands of clay soldiers that protected the first Emperor of China when they were unearthed in an archeological dig! The time it must taken to do that was mind-boggling to me, since they weren't all the same - facial expressions varied, Monte! And they were positioned by rank! Quite a culture they had that far back! My mother and sister did visit China - I couldn't take time off from work to accompany them, but I wish I had - and they did see the Great Wall and so many other places of interest. As you know, I have been learning Mandarin Chinese, though...and people say English is difficult!

    Time for me to say good night now. It's been a busy day.

  6. #236
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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    I certainly did read your post! I just wasn't aware they had claimed those islands so very long ago. I love history, but China hasn't been covered as extensively as the Egyptians, as an example, but I was astonished at seeing the thousands of clay soldiers that protected the first Emperor of China when they were unearthed in an archeological dig! The time it must taken to do that was mind-boggling to me, since they weren't all the same - facial expressions varied, Monte! And they were positioned by rank! Quite a culture they had that far back! My mother and sister did visit China - I couldn't take time off from work to accompany them, but I wish I had - and they did see the Great Wall and so many other places of interest. As you know, I have been learning Mandarin Chinese, though...and people say English is difficult!

    Time for me to say good night now. It's been a busy day.
    I remember that very impressive dig and would love to see it live! Have you been to see it? If not ill book us a flight next month if you have time.

    Sleep well.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I remember that very impressive dig and would love to see it live! Have you been to see it? If not ill book us a flight next month if you have time.

    Sleep well.
    No, I haven't seen that in person; looking at pictures is mind-boggling enough! I have been to the Mayan/Aztec museum in Mexico City on a guided tour, though, and that has relics circa 1800 BC! I wonder what archeologists will say about us 2,000 years from now, assuming we don't incinerate ourselves first - we were among the first to travel throughout our solar system on a regular basis? Vacationing on Neptune might be interesting...

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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    You need a little more background. Upholding freedom of navigation has been a core vital interest of the US since our country's founding. Remember the Barbary pirates? In the South China Sea the US is doing nothing it has not done for over 60 years.
    So has China threatened to deny this freedom of the seas or engaged in piracy then ?

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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    No, I haven't seen that in person; looking at pictures is mind-boggling enough!
    Indeed they are. Taken on my visit to the terracotta warriors museum Shaanxi Xi'An China in 2012. They don't actually allow you to take pictures at the main excavation hanger unfortunately. It was the same when I visited the Taj Mahal in India too where they actually confiscated your cameras at the entrance !

    Weird

    2014-12-07 19.27.01.jpg
    Last edited by flogger; 05-29-15 at 09:18 AM.

  10. #240
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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    Indeed they are. Taken on my visit to the terracotta warriors museum Shaanxi Xi'An China in 2012. They don't actually allow you to take pictures at the main excavation hanger unfortunately. It was the same when I visited the Taj Mahal in India too where they actually confiscated your cameras at the entrance !

    Weird

    2014-12-07 19.27.01.jpg
    Good morning, Flogger.

    Thanks for posting this photo! Lucky you! To know they did this with rudimentary tools is what makes it so impressive! I don't know if anyone has determined how long this must have taken, even with thousands of artisans, but it must have been years! Were you able to see the full size horses and chariots that were also fashioned from clay which were part of this exhibit? *shaking head in amazed wonder and respect for the talent shown* And to realize we haven't even yet seen the full size city complete with his many-roomed palace, which includes rooms of concubines, still buried underground - words fail me.

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