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Thread: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South China

  1. #211
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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Funny that if China says it, its propaganda, if the US says it, hell, its gospel. What a patronising group.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    I don't think Obama is prepared to engage militarily with China over Taiwan, so I don't thing we'll be in a fight with them over the Spratlys. We could contain their entrepreneurial exuberance in the South China Sea, though. They aren't building a military base just to defend a military base.
    We will see.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It's not the Spratlys?!?! China is one of six nations that have overlapping claims to them. Do you understand that Taiwan also claims the entire Spratly archipelago? So where's that leave the other claimants, why aren't you angry at Taiwan? What do you want to see, the six countries draw straws. The big fuss at present is over China building up the existing islands and constructing infrastructure on them. I really don't know what you mean, but I've been focused on the Spratly (Paracels) the whole time.
    Is Taiwan strong arming those other claimants? Nope
    is Taiwan building in reef areas? nope
    I asked why China does not avail themselves of the Treaty that governs this and to which the are a signatory. You never answered that.
    I noted that china is claiming land, yep land, not just clearly territorial waters under the Convention but territory of Vietnam and Malaysia. You never answered that either.
    You mentioned USFP. Yes they are not always right, lots of screwup to be truthful.
    The countries involved signed an accord for joint discussion to settle the issue and that no one would build up in areas.
    Malaysia and China have both done this.
    China backed off on that agreement as well.
    It is China that has caused this problem by their actions.

    Yet you constantly defend China, even when they are clearly in violation of the Convention, and their complete disregard for past agreements.And screw the rest.
    Who do you think small countries turn to in situations like this? The US.
    The US has not broken any agreements, not violated any policies, not bullied their neighbors.

    What you have happening is just a taste of what China will do in the coming years.
    China still has territorial grievances with, guess who, Russia to begin with, India is another.
    You bias on USFP is clearly coloring your judgement.

    Yet you fault the US. Why?
    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    The damage to the black community from all this will be devastating.
    Not only on public perception and reputation, but cops simply won't want to police these neighborhoods anymore.
    The shooter was later found to be white.

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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    You could say that. However, the US does have treaty obligations and that other thing I alluded to. You could consider those too if you actually take obligations such as those seriously. Consider for a moment what the disregard of treaty obligations on the part of the US might mean for England. You won't get much objection from us if you decide to go it alone. There are other issues as well, but I'm loathe to have to point them out.
    Those treaty obligations aren't open on both ends. The Philippines for example can't reach out and poke a stick at China expecting the US to be there when China snaps back. Well, they can, and the US likely would be there, but that's not the intent or literal purpose of such agreements. Furthermore, such agreements exist to give countries the "cover" of legitimacy to militarily operations in places they want to be but otherwise couldn't defend the right to be.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Funny that if China says it, its propaganda, if the US says it, hell, its gospel. What a patronising group.
    Freedom of navigation has been a core vital interest of the US since our country's founding.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Those treaty obligations aren't open on both ends. The Philippines for example can't reach out and poke a stick at China expecting the US to be there when China snaps back. Well, they can, and the US likely would be there, but that's not the intent or literal purpose of such agreements. Furthermore, such agreements exist to give countries the "cover" of legitimacy to militarily operations in places they want to be but otherwise couldn't defend the right to be.
    We have those obligations because the other signatories want us there.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Is Taiwan strong arming those other claimants? Nope
    is Taiwan building in reef areas? nope
    I asked why China does not avail themselves of the Treaty that governs this and to which the are a signatory. You never answered that.
    I noted that china is claiming land, yep land, not just clearly territorial waters under the Convention but territory of Vietnam and Malaysia. You never answered that either.
    You mentioned USFP. Yes they are not always right, lots of screwup to be truthful.
    The countries involved signed an accord for joint discussion to settle the issue and that no one would build up in areas.
    Malaysia and China have both done this.
    China backed off on that agreement as well.
    It is China that has caused this problem by their actions.

    Yet you constantly defend China, even when they are clearly in violation of the Convention, and their complete disregard for past agreements.And screw the rest.
    Who do you think small countries turn to in situations like this? The US.
    The US has not broken any agreements, not violated any policies, not bullied their neighbors.

    What you have happening is just a taste of what China will do in the coming years.
    China still has territorial grievances with, guess who, Russia to begin with, India is another.
    You bias on USFP is clearly coloring your judgement.

    Yet you fault the US. Why?
    I've answered all those questions, you just don't like the answers.

    The 1887 Chinese-Vietnamese Boundary convention signed between France and China after the Sino-French War said that China was the owner of the Spratly and Paracel islands.

    Territorial disputes in the South China Sea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    In 1907 China installed survey markers and flags on the islands.

    And AGAIN, Japan seized control of the Spratly's from China in 1939! After the Japanese surrendered, possession of the islands were transferred back to China.

    Chines artifacts (pottery and coins) were excavated from the islands dating to the 1,700's

    I don't think China feels the need to ask the UN who didn't even exist during those events what they think about it.

    I disagree with you therefore that China's the one causing any problems. And you really are in over your head if your going to set where you are and tell me that the US has never bullied any other countries......

    Apparently China and Russia have merging interests that make trivial any territorial disputes between them. Do you understand that China is encouraging an ASEAN security alliance between themselves, Iran and Russia.

    1902 – China sends naval forces on inspection tours of the Paracel Islands to preempt French claims.[49]
    1907 – China sends another naval force, this time to plan for resource exploitation.[49]
    1911 – The newly formed Republic of China, successor state to the Qing Dynasty, moves administration of the Paracel Islands to Hainan,[49] which would not become a separate Chinese province until 1988.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I've answered all those questions, you just don't like the answers.

    The 1887 Chinese-Vietnamese Boundary convention signed between France and China after the Sino-French War said that China was the owner of the Spratly and Paracel islands.

    Territorial disputes in the South China Sea - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





    In 1907 China installed survey markers and flags on the islands.

    And AGAIN, Japan seized control of the Spratly's from China in 1939! After the Japanese surrendered, possession of the islands were transferred back to China.

    Chines artifacts (pottery and coins) were excavated from the islands dating to the 1,700's

    I don't think China feels the need to ask the UN who didn't even exist during those events what they think about it.

    I disagree with you therefore that China's the one causing any problems. And you really are in over your head if your going to set where you are and tell me that the US has never bullied any other countries......

    Apparently China and Russia have merging interests that make trivial any territorial disputes between them. Do you understand that China is encouraging an ASEAN security alliance between themselves, Iran and Russia.
    Not that I do not like the answers, the answers have no substance.
    I ain't talking about the islands. Look at the 47 agreement and the new claims. Right into territorial waters of other countries. The n47 map claimed part of 2 nations territory. That ain't water.

    No answer on why China reneged on their agreement and specifically demanded one on one negotiations. That one is easy to answer.

    No answer on why China does not avail themselves of the Seas Convention? Why? Can you answer that.
    No answer on why China reneged on their past agreements. Again an easy one
    No answer on why the US is supposedly in the wrong?
    No answer on why these countries are asking for US diplomatic assistance.
    No answer on why China does not take this to the UN? Because they will lose.
    Why is the US in the wrong on this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    The damage to the black community from all this will be devastating.
    Not only on public perception and reputation, but cops simply won't want to police these neighborhoods anymore.
    The shooter was later found to be white.

  9. #219
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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    White Paper Outlines China's AmbitionsDefenseNews.com‎ - 2 days ago

    ... flying near Chinese controlled areas of the South China Sea. ... The report indicates that Taiwan's multiple military variables to deter Chinese aggression are eroding. In the ...

    TAIPEI, Taiwan China released its first white paper on military strategy Tuesday, just two weeks after the release of the Pentagon's annual report to the US Congress on China's military and security developments.
    Neither report appears to take blame for the rising tensions in the South China and East China seas. The Chinese report, "China's Military Strategy," indicates "some of its offshore neighbors" have taken "provocative actions" and reinforced their military presence on China's reefs and islands "illegally."
    Without mentioning the US, it says, "some external countries are also busy meddling in South China Sea affairs; a tiny few maintain constant close-in air and sea surveillance and reconnaissance against China."
    No mention is made of the recent warning to a US reconnaissance aircraft flying near Chinese controlled areas of the South China Sea. China has not fully explained massive land reclamation efforts that will turn some reefs and islets into airbases and port facilities. . . .
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    China's Dangerous Game - The Atlantic

    www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/.../chinas.../380789/


    The Atlantic


    If China can impose its will in the South China Sea, at least five rival .... Chinese ships in order to raise the cost of Chinese aggression to unacceptable levels.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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