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Thread: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South China

  1. #121
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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Who said Manila would threaten Beijing??? Wtf are you talking about. I SAID THAT THE US SHOULD AVOID UNNECESSARY PROVOCATIONS AGAINST CHINA!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I then posted for you a comment from the CFR in which they cautioned the US against stupid statements like Hillary's, that could embolden Manila to engage in a provocation of its own, expecting something from the US that may not be there.

    Jack, why don't you read and comprehend before you start banging on your keyboard, hmm?

    Nevertheless, an apparent gap exists between American views of U.S. obligations and Manila's expectations. In mid-June 2011, a Filipino presidential spokesperson stated that in the event of armed conflict with China, Manila expected the United States would come to its aid. Statements by senior U.S. officials may have inadvertently led Manila to conclude that the United States would provide military assistance if China attacked Filipino forces in the disputed Spratly Islands.

    Armed Clash in the South China Sea - Council on Foreign Relations
    How should China conduct themselves.
    They agreed years ago to a process.
    That is gone as they reneged.
    They have increased the rhetoric of war.
    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    The damage to the black community from all this will be devastating.
    Not only on public perception and reputation, but cops simply won't want to police these neighborhoods anymore.
    The shooter was later found to be white.

  2. #122
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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Oh yes, and they agreed years ago on this.
    It is China that has ramped up the rhetoric.
    Lastly- Why do they not take it to the UN?
    Because they will not win all of their claim
    Look at the maps, they are claiming territorial waters of other countries.
    How do you justify that?
    China has held title to the Spratlys since before the UN ever existed. Why should they seek legitimacy from the UN?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  3. #123
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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    From the article:
    OK. It would be interesting to know how fully operational they are. Going out a couple hundred miles and then putting back into port after a couple weeks because something sprang a leak is not the same as patrolling halfway over the world, reliably, for six months at a time. In any case, I don't see any cause for the U.S. military or the American people to be alarmed.

    In October, 1962, the USSR was right on the verge of having eighty or so missiles armed with warheads of at least one megaton each ready to launch at the U.S. from Cuba. There would have been only a couple hours' warning of an attack on our cities, which, given their limited accuracy, would have been the only practical targets for them. They would have been easier to destroy preemptively than missiles on subs, but not by all that much.

    But superiority in numbers, quality, or both counts, even with nuclear missiles. Assuming they are under the control of rational people--and unless that can be assumed no meaningful calculations of risk are possible--a small force of missiles is not much use against a much larger one. Given another week or so, the Soviets would have been able to kill millions of Americans with the weapons they had in Cuba. But even if they had struck the U.S. with every nuclear missile they had, both there and in the Soviet Union, they could not have destroyed many U.S. missiles, if any. They had too few, and they were not accurate enough. And any such attack would have guaranteed a far larger counterstrike that would have permanently destroyed the USSR and killed tens of millions of its citizens.

    I'm sure China wants to base ballistic missiles on subs for the same reason the U.S. did--because it prevents them from being destroyed in a preemptive attack. That increases the cost of any such attack, because any nation that launched one could be sure it would suffer enormous losses from a counterstrike.

  4. #124
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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    How should China conduct themselves.
    They agreed years ago to a process.
    That is gone as they reneged.
    They have increased the rhetoric of war.
    I disagree. But it is clear, that once again, as it never seems to fail, we have folks, some of which aren't even American, fully prepared for Americans to shed their blood, this time to dispute insignificant islands hundreds of miles off of the Chinese mainland that are thousands of miles from US shores.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    The US is not bound to support Manila in the event of Filipino aggression.
    What about Chinese aggression?
    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    The damage to the black community from all this will be devastating.
    Not only on public perception and reputation, but cops simply won't want to police these neighborhoods anymore.
    The shooter was later found to be white.

  6. #126
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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    The US is not bound to support Manila in the event of Filipino aggression.
    Again with the monumental silliness.

    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Greetings, humbolt.

    According to what I recall from my college days spent studying history (which is by no means cast in concrete ), China has claimed ownership of the Sprattlys since the 1800s. At the end of WW2, Japan "returned" the Sprattlys to China, with French backing and allied approval. China's move now is unusual, but it's been rumored for quite a while that this might be coming. Is this a "triple Dog dare you" message to the US, and is this really all up to us? It seems more a matter for the UN, IMO. Interesting....
    It is a matter for the UN. Most nations without ulterior motives would attempt to resolve it before declaring an exclusion zone far, far beyond what's necessary, and would not undertake the construction of a military base in advance. The islands are largely uninhabitable, and considering that habitation is one of the primary criteria for determining the validity of a claim, it would seem that all who have attempted to make a claim deserve a hearing if they can claim habitation at some point. I don't begrudge China making it's claim, but declaring the 200 mile exclusion zone over a vast area seems to be more than a little over the top. Many of the small countries surrounding that area have been fishing those water since forever, and fishing is a staple and integral part of their lively-hoods.

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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I agreed to its legality, I was contesting its prudence and necessity. Satellites can easily determine what's taking place on the islands. The US should avoid unnecessary provocations.

    The United States should avoid inadvertently encouraging the claimants to engage in confrontational behavior. For example, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton's reference in November 2011 to the South China Sea as the West Philippine Sea could have unintended consequences such as emboldening Manila to antagonize China rather than it seeking to peacefully settle their differences.

    Armed Clash in the South China Sea - Council on Foreign Relations
    Greetings, Montecresto.

    That body of water has been called the South China Sea for as long as I can remember, so who knows her motives for calling it something else? I doubt Manila will question China over it, though, but they and the other countries involved might raise their concerns to the Council on Foreign Relations on what's happening over there - if they haven't already done so!

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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I disagree. But it is clear, that once again, as it never seems to fail, we have folks, some of which aren't even American, fully prepared for Americans to shed their blood, this time to dispute insignificant islands hundreds of miles off of the Chinese mainland that are thousands of miles from US shores.
    Where have I called for War by the US? Point it out.
    You are losing the augment when it devolves to this.
    I stopped counting at the 50 Plus mark of friends killed in Bosnia and AStan. And that does not include all the suicides after. And more to come.
    I spent 3 1/2 years in a **** hole called Bosnia.
    I suggest reconsidering your insulting remark.
    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    The damage to the black community from all this will be devastating.
    Not only on public perception and reputation, but cops simply won't want to police these neighborhoods anymore.
    The shooter was later found to be white.

  10. #130
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    Re: Beijing warns US: 'We will fight back' as battle of words escalates over South Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    China has held title to the Spratlys since before the UN ever existed. Why should they seek legitimacy from the UN?
    They signed a convention on this that clearly addresses claims. That is clear.
    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    The damage to the black community from all this will be devastating.
    Not only on public perception and reputation, but cops simply won't want to police these neighborhoods anymore.
    The shooter was later found to be white.

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