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Thread: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

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    re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I just did and I was right, it turns out. Most federal "aid" is actually in the form of loans.

    Glad I could educate you today. Please don't respond further, I choose not to associate with snark.
    To be honest, Israel buys US milspec hardware with this money. So, in aspect, it is like the US giving money to its own MIC.

    However, once home, Israel usually reverse-engineers the US toy, then sell its secrets to China.

    Not a bad deal for Israel.
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    re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by MVictorP View Post
    To be honest, Israel buys US milspec hardware with this money. So, in aspect, it is like the US giving money to its own MIC.

    However, once home, Israel usually reverse-engineers the US toy, then sell its secrets to China.

    Not a bad deal for Israel.
    I doubt that happens with any regularity. You have any links? (the part about selling secrets to china)

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    re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by MVictorP View Post
    Codswallop. The US has a much more sane relation with Canada, the UK and Australia, for exemple. I never heard that the UK pulled a "USS Liberty" on the US...
    The U.S.S. Liberty incident was a terrible and accidental tragedy. The incident was repeatedly and exhaustively investigated and every investigation reached the same conclusion that Israel did not deliberately attack the U.S.S. Liberty. Moreover, it should be noted that friendly fire incidents have affected the U.S. and U.S. allies in the past. Such tragedies have never been used as justification to destroy the bilateral relationships.

    If, say, China suddenly decided that California is now the "home of the Cherokee people" and these proceded to an ethnic cleansing against non-red people there...
    This analogy, creative as it might be, has no relevance to the historic Israeli-Palestinian dispute.

    I can see no interest for the US to have Israel as an ally. Please name one, and no, the facility with which Israel finds the US ennemies and uses for its citizen's money are not among them.
    Repeated U.S. Administrations--Democratic and Republican--have concluded that the relationship is in the U.S. interests on grounds of regional stability/security and economic/trade grounds.

    But at least, the reason why the US is ally with arab nations is clear: Oil. There is no such hard value with Israel.
    Commodities trade is not the sole criterion on which the utility of partners is judged. The U.S. and Israel have significant pharmaceutical-related trade that benefits the health of both countries' peoples. A lot of collaboration takes place in technology and scientific fields and both countries benefit from such collaboration.

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    re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I doubt that happens with any regularity. You have any links? (the part about selling secrets to china)
    Sure.

    The main expression of Congressional support for Israel has been foreign aid. Since 1985, it has provided nearly $3 billion in grants annually to Israel, with Israel being the largest annual recipient of American aid from 1976 to 2004 and the largest cumulative recipient of aid ($121 billion, not inflation-adjusted) since World War II. Seventy-four percent of these funds must be spent purchasing US goods and services. More recently, in fiscal year 2014, the US provided $3.9 billion in foreign military aid to Israel. Israel also benefits from about $8 billion of loan guarantees.
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    re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    The U.S.S. Liberty incident was a terrible and accidental tragedy. The incident was repeatedly and exhaustively investigated and every investigation reached the same conclusion that Israel did not deliberately attack the U.S.S. Liberty. Moreover, it should be noted that friendly fire incidents have affected the U.S. and U.S. allies in the past. Such tragedies have never been used as justification to destroy the bilateral relationships.
    There has been new revelations of late.

    That transcript, made by a Post reporter who was allowed to listen to what the Israeli Air Force said were tapes of the attacking pilots' communications, contained only two references to "American" or "Americans," one at the beginning and the other at the end of the attack.

    The first reference occurred at 1:54 p.m. local time, two minutes before the Israeli jets began their first strafing run.

    In the Post transcript, a weapons system officer on the ground suddenly blurted out, "What is this? Americans?"

    "Where are Americans?" replied one of the air controllers.

    The question went unanswered, and it was not asked again.

    Twenty minutes later, after the Liberty had been hit repeatedly by machine guns, 30 mm cannon and napalm from the Israelis' French-built Mirage and Mystere fighter-bombers, the controller directing the attack asked his chief in Tel Aviv to which country the target vessel belonged.

    "Apparently American," the chief controller replied.

    Fourteen minutes later the Liberty was struck amidships by a torpedo from an Israeli boat, killing 26 of the 100 or so NSA technicians and specialists in Russian and Arabic who were working in restricted compartments below the ship's waterline.

    Analyst: Israelis wanted it sunk
    What, no comments about the Lavon affair or the dealings with China?

    This analogy, creative as it might be, has no relevance to the historic Israeli-Palestinian dispute.
    Why not?

    Repeated U.S. Administrations--Democratic and Republican--have concluded that the relationship is in the U.S. interests on grounds of regional stability/security and economic/trade grounds.
    I think Dems like Repubes also appreciate the generous contributions that AIPAC gives them. And no, it isn't corruption.

    Commodities trade is not the sole criterion on which the utility of partners is judged. The U.S. and Israel have significant pharmaceutical-related trade that benefits the health of both countries' peoples. A lot of collaboration takes place in technology and scientific fields and both countries benefit from such collaboration.
    Pharmaticals? Such a clean sector of entreprise. Ah well, I just learned that it wasn't all about jaffa oranges.
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    re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    So much potential BS in your post, it's hard to know where to begin.

    So I won't.

    You could at least make an effort like I did for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

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    re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    That narrative is inconsistent with what happened. First, there was no independent Palestinian state at the time the UN addressed the issue of how to bring the British Mandate to an end. Instead, the land had been held by the Ottoman Empire and then Great Britain. Second, at the time the UN took up the issue, there were irreconcilable differences between the region's two peoples and the UN Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) concluded that a partition plan that would create an Arab and Jewish state offered the most realistic approach for addressing those differences. The Jewish representatives accepted the plan. The Arab side did not. Upon Israel's declaring statehood at the expiration of the British Mandate, Arab armies launched an invasion aimed at eliminating it. Israel prevailed.

    Had the Arab leadership had the foresight to accept the partition plan, things could have been much different. Considerable bloodshed could have been avoided. A prosperous Palestinian state could have existed alongside Israel on far more territory than it can possibly attain today. But that's not what happened and the short-sighted decision of the Arab leadership had enormous opportunity costs.
    Well then, weren't they wrong. I suppose their hearts were in the right place though.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    The U.S.S. Liberty incident was a terrible and accidental tragedy. The incident was repeatedly and exhaustively investigated and every investigation reached the same conclusion that Israel did not deliberately attack the U.S.S. Liberty. Moreover, it should be noted that friendly fire incidents have affected the U.S. and U.S. allies in the past. Such tragedies have never been used as justification to destroy the bilateral relationships.



    This analogy, creative as it might be, has no relevance to the historic Israeli-Palestinian dispute.



    Repeated U.S. Administrations--Democratic and Republican--have concluded that the relationship is in the U.S. interests on grounds of regional stability/security and economic/trade grounds.



    Commodities trade is not the sole criterion on which the utility of partners is judged. The U.S. and Israel have significant pharmaceutical-related trade that benefits the health of both countries' peoples. A lot of collaboration takes place in technology and scientific fields and both countries benefit from such collaboration.
    Apologising for the Israelis!!!!

    For Lockwood and many other survivors, the anger is mixed with incredulity: that Israel would attack an important ally, then attribute the attack to a case of mistaken identity by Israeli pilots who had confused the U.S. Navy's most distinctive ship with an Egyptian horse-cavalry transport that was half its size and had a dissimilar profile. And they're also incredulous that, for years, their own government would reject their calls for a thorough investigation.

    In 1967, at the height of the Arab / Israeli Six Day War, the Israeli Air Force attacked the USS Liberty, a US Navy spy ship that was monitoring the conflict from the safety of international waters in the Mediterranean. Israeli jet fighters twice identified the ship as American before hitting the vessel with rockets, cannon-fire and napalm, before three Israeli torpedo boats moved in to launch a second more devastating attack.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/chi-li...ry.html#page=1
    http://pr.aljazeera.com/post/1013399...y-ship-in-1967
    Last edited by Montecresto; 05-26-15 at 07:26 PM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I doubt that happens with any regularity. You have any links? (the part about selling secrets to china)
    ISRAEL SELLS ARMS TO CHINA, U.S. SAYS - NYTimes.com

    http://www.nationofchange.org/us-cra...ina-1389108698

    http://www.algemeiner.com/2013/12/22...logy-to-china/

    http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition...r-not-1.144834

    Do note the various different dates.
    Last edited by Montecresto; 05-26-15 at 07:34 PM.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    Oh dear, do we have to bring that into it. I really oppose our foreign policy being established on a biblical verse, sorry but NO!!!
    That sir is more important than all the riches in the universe.
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

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