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Thread: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

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    re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    I'm not in favor of giving our hard earned money to foreign powers for most reasons.

    However..in the case of Israel...

    Genesis 12:3 "And I will bless them that bless thee and curse him that curseth thee; and in thee shall all nations of the earth be blessed." Point: God has promised to bless the man or nation that blesses the Chosen People. History has proven beyond reasonable doubt that the nations that have blessed the Jewish people have had the blessing of God; the nations that have cursed the Jewish people have experienced the curse of God.
    The Old testament is about a tribal, petty god. So of course it watches over Jews - they're the one writting these tales. What do you expect?

    No relation whatsoever with the universal, forgiving god presented in the NT.
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    re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by MVictorP View Post
    The Old testament is about a tribal, petty god. So of course it watches over Jews - they're the one writting these tales. What do you expect?

    No relation whatsoever with the universal, forgiving god presented in the NT.
    That's a pretty radical proposition. I'm not aware of any serious religious scholarship that sustains such a position.

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    re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by MVictorP View Post
    Well, no rational nation accepts being displaced, relocalised and abused for more than 60 years neither. Even unarmed ones.
    That narrative is inconsistent with what happened. First, there was no independent Palestinian state at the time the UN addressed the issue of how to bring the British Mandate to an end. Instead, the land had been held by the Ottoman Empire and then Great Britain. Second, at the time the UN took up the issue, there were irreconcilable differences between the region's two peoples and the UN Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) concluded that a partition plan that would create an Arab and Jewish state offered the most realistic approach for addressing those differences. The Jewish representatives accepted the plan. The Arab side did not. Upon Israel's declaring statehood at the expiration of the British Mandate, Arab armies launched an invasion aimed at eliminating it. Israel prevailed.

    Had the Arab leadership had the foresight to accept the partition plan, things could have been much different. Considerable bloodshed could have been avoided. A prosperous Palestinian state could have existed alongside Israel on far more territory than it can possibly attain today. But that's not what happened and the short-sighted decision of the Arab leadership had enormous opportunity costs.

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    re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Israel is a longstanding American ally. Not even the United States’ enemies question that relationship. The relationship is mutually beneficial, so “parasitic” is a wholly inaccurate description. Furthermore, as is the case with all nations, Israel will act in its national interest. There is broad overlap between the American and Israeli national interest, even as there are some differences, as well. That some differences exist does not undermine the basis for the bilateral relationship. No pairs of nations have identical interests.
    Codswallop. The US has a much more sane relation with Canada, the UK and Australia, for exemple. I never heard that the UK pulled a "USS Liberty" on the US. Canada never tried a "Lavon Affair" on the US, and Australia never did sold your military secret to China. Neither of these countries has an APAIC equivalent that corrupts your democratic system .

    You relation with Israel is that of an abused women and her violent husband. We can do anything if you don't want to help yourself first.

    Israel didn’t just “seize territory.” The historic experience is far more complex. Israel accepted the UN’s partition plan. The Arab side did not. The latter attempted to conquer Israel, but lost the war. Israel has fended off aggression for the duration of its independence since 1948. At the same time, Israel has ceded territory for peace. It gave up the Sinai Peninsula in exchange for Egypt-Israel peace. It offered to give up virtually the entire Golan Heights for peace with Syria in 2000, but President Hafez Assad rejected those terms. It was willing to give up all of the Gaza Strip and 97% of the West Bank in return for peace with the Palestinians when it accepted President Clinton’s bridging proposal in 2000 and up to 98% of the West Bank (along with all of the Gaza Strip) in Prime Minister Ehud Olmert’s 2008 initiative. The Palestinian leadership rejected both proposals.
    If, say, China suddenly decided that California is now the "home of the Cherokee people" and these proceded to an ethnic cleansing against non-red people there, dio you think the US will take it so easily? You are inflicting on people things you wouldn't accept for yourselves. And besides, the Palestinian authority is more open to a solution than Israel - why would Israel want peace, if it's winning the war? This 97% mantra is bull****, as the said territory would be crissed-crossed will zionist hilltop forteresses, Jews-only highways and security fences, and you know it. Olmert, which is Israel's man in Palestine since the democratic election of Hamas, is meek as a lamb and look at the land Israelis are stealing in his WB as we speak so pleasantly.

    Nations maintain relationships based on interests. The U.S. has longstanding partnerships with a number of moderate Arab states on account of shared interests. Those states include Egypt and Jordan.
    I can see no interest for the US to have Israel as an ally. Please name one, and no, the facility with which Israel finds the US ennemies and uses for its citizen's money are not among them.

    The U.S. trades with many of the Arab states.
    And makes war on the other ones. But at least, the reason why the US is ally with arab nations is clear: Oil. There is no such hard value with Israel.


    Israel has had a range of governments including left-of-center Labor governments, centrist Kadima governments, and right-of-center Likud governments. The U.S., too, has had governments with Democratic and Republican Presidents. This diversity in governing represents the political maturity that both the U.S. and Israel share. Whether one chooses a parliamentary democracy as in Europe, U.S.-style democracy, or some other form is immaterial. Those democratic states have representative and inclusive government.
    Look, it may have a vast palette of political choices indeed, but looking at the Knesset's composition will quickly make one draw the conclusion that Israel is a far-right country.


    Assistance (financial, educational, etc.) for people in poverty, need, etc., and foreign aid are not mutually exclusive.
    If money is such an un-problem, who are these guys in the street with the tea pouches? Why is this rich guy ripping his shirt off crying about taxes?
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    re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    I doubt we "give" foreign aid to Israel or anyone else. Haven't looked in to it, but just knowing the way the US and the world works.... it's most likely a loan of some sort.

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    re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    That narrative is inconsistent with what happened. First, there was no independent Palestinian state at the time the UN addressed the issue of how to bring the British Mandate to an end. Instead, the land had been held by the Ottoman Empire and then Great Britain. Second, at the time the UN took up the issue, there were irreconcilable differences between the region's two peoples and the UN Special Committee on Palestine (UNSCOP) concluded that a partition plan that would create an Arab and Jewish state offered the most realistic approach for addressing those differences. The Jewish representatives accepted the plan. The Arab side did not. Upon Israel's declaring statehood at the expiration of the British Mandate, Arab armies launched an invasion aimed at eliminating it. Israel prevailed.
    First, there were a Palestinian people even if there were no Palestinian state - as much as there was a Jewish people before there has been a Jewish state. Even if it wasn't "their" country, the Palestinians there had some leeway in the way they were governing themselves. And of course the Jews accepted the Plan - it was their plan. They were the ones who had driven it. It would have been quite something if the Jews rejected their own plan, isn't it? Nobody cared about the Palestinians at that time - the Jewish people had just went throught the Holocaust, whether there wasn't a single Palestinian with money.

    Second - the Arabs attacked with what? They have been disarmed by the UK before. Did Deir Yassin occured after may 15, or before?

    The partition plan was wrong, because it was drawn on racial lines - racial lines, in this day and ages and after the race-cleansing horrors we just witnessed in WWII. What was the Ukrainians' claims to Israel, I still wonder.

    Had the Arab leadership had the foresight to accept the partition plan, things could have been much different. Considerable bloodshed could have been avoided. A prosperous Palestinian state could have existed alongside Israel on far more territory than it can possibly attain today. But that's not what happened and the short-sighted decision of the Arab leadership had enormous opportunity costs.
    I don't believe that for a second. If there was peace between Israel and Palestine, the Israelis would have to break it to seize the rest of Eretz Yisrael.
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    re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Haven't looked in to it
    Maybe you should look into things before you start talking about them.

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    re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomalism View Post
    Should we give Israel more aid?

    Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package | Jewish Telegraphic Agency

    Israel reportedly wants the U.S. to increase its annual defense assistance package by half, to an average $4.5 billion. Defense News reported this weekend that Israel and U.S. officials have in recent months begun negotiations on the next 10-year aid package. The previous package, negotiated by the George W. Bush and Ehud Olmert governments in 2007, averaged $3 billion of assistance each year, for a total of $30 billion, from 2007-2017. The government of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu wants that to increase to $42-45 billion over the 2018-2028 period, Defense News reported, adding that President Barack Obama during his March 2013 visit to Israel “endorsed in principle” that range.

    Defense News quotes “U.S. and Israeli experts” as saying that the amount would be separate from any package the United States offered Israel as compensation for the Iran nuclear deal now being negotiated between Iran and the major powers. Like the defense assistance package currently in place, it is also separate from the $1.2 billion in materiel the United States stores in Israel and which under certain conditions is available for Israeli use, and from the approximately $500 million in U.S. funds provided to Israeli anti-missile development each year.
    We should cut all military and financial aid to Israel and every country that receives aid from us tax payers.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomalism View Post
    Maybe you should look into things before you start talking about them.
    I just did and I was right, it turns out. Most federal "aid" is actually in the form of loans.

    Glad I could educate you today. Please don't respond further, I choose not to associate with snark.

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    re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I just did and I was right, it turns out. Most federal "aid" is actually in the form of loans.

    Glad I could educate you today. Please don't respond further, I choose not to associate with snark.
    Congress forgives most of Israel's debt. So yeah, we are giving them money. I'm glad I could educate you today. In the future it would be prudent to know what you're talking about before you start talking.

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