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Thread: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

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    re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by MVictorP View Post
    You wouldn't have to suck for US money to keep off the assault of the damned if you treated them like human beings in the first place. Likewise, there wouldn't so much antisemitism today if it wasn't for the actions of the rogue nation that most of your people support.

    How many people did those gazillion "rockets" killed, so far? Yeah, you poor eternal martyr you.
    Yes, because antisemitism does not predate the existence of Israel, never before 1948 was there any single antisemitic incident.
    And I get the feeling you want me to apologize for my state's security systems that significantly reduce the effectiveness of the rockets that the terrorists are launching. That ain't going to happen. Finally, this thread is not the thread for the kind of discussion you're trying to have here.
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    re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by MVictorP View Post
    You wouldn't have to suck for US money to keep off the assault of the damned if you treated them like human beings in the first place. Likewise, there wouldn't so much antisemitism today if it wasn't for the actions of the rogue nation that most of your people support.

    How many people did those gazillion "rockets" killed, so far? Yeah, you poor eternal martyr you.
    No rational nation allows others to attempt to injure or kill its people with impunity. Israel is no exception. Moreover, like any other sovereign state, Israel has an inherent right of self defense. Israel cannot reasonably be expected to be indifferent to acts of aggression or violence against its people and, it most definitely will not be indifferent to such assaults.

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    re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by Anomalism View Post
    Should we give Israel more aid?

    Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package | Jewish Telegraphic Agency

    Israel reportedly wants the U.S. to increase its annual defense assistance package by half, to an average $4.5 billion. Defense News reported this weekend that Israel and U.S. officials have in recent months begun negotiations on the next 10-year aid package. The previous package, negotiated by the George W. Bush and Ehud Olmert governments in 2007, averaged $3 billion of assistance each year, for a total of $30 billion, from 2007-2017. The government of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu wants that to increase to $42-45 billion over the 2018-2028 period, Defense News reported, adding that President Barack Obama during his March 2013 visit to Israel “endorsed in principle” that range.

    Defense News quotes “U.S. and Israeli experts” as saying that the amount would be separate from any package the United States offered Israel as compensation for the Iran nuclear deal now being negotiated between Iran and the major powers. Like the defense assistance package currently in place, it is also separate from the $1.2 billion in materiel the United States stores in Israel and which under certain conditions is available for Israeli use, and from the approximately $500 million in U.S. funds provided to Israeli anti-missile development each year.
    They can make their own money. Dang panhandlers.
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    re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    While I can't comment on specific amounts as I'm not privy to the security-related details on which the figures are based, I support accommodating Israel's request for a number of reasons:

    1. Israel remains a longstanding strategic ally. Strengthening such allies is in the U.S. national interest.
    Israel is not your ally. They aren't yanks, you see; they're mostly Ukrainians. They don't give a schnitz about you. They won't hesitate to do you harm if it furthers their aggressive goals. If you let them down, they will parasite on another body instead. Your intestinal parasite doesn't necessarly loves you with sentimentality.

    2. Israel is an island of stability in a region in turmoil. U.S. policy approaches that maximize Israel's ability to remain stable and prosperous in the region are consistent with the United States' Mideast interests.
    That's codswallop. If anything, Israel poisons the relations out there. It is a destabilizing agent, because with stability, it wouldn't be able to seize territory - territory that God gave them, not to unclean goyim such as me or you (I assume).

    3. Assuring that Israel maintains a qualitative military edge over its regional rivals is compatible with a regional balance of power that is consistent with American interests.
    It aslo insures that no Arabic nation will ever trust you.
    4. Israel is an American trading and economic partner. The two-way trade is mutually beneficial to the two countries; business relationships between U.S. and Israeli firms help promote competitive advantages that benefit both countries.
    Arab countries trade, too. In fact, word is that it is a people who especially likes to trade. Well, those in the Gaza strip can't trade, since they're kept in a concentration camp blockaded by Israel. If Arabs did that to Jews I'd bet you'd be crying us a river.

    5. With a stable and longstanding democratic political system, Israel and the United States share important political values as they relate to representative government, both in theory and in practice.
    Israeli democracy is a right-wing affair, and corruption is an essential part of the American one. No ones desires USA-style democracy. Different influences would do you good, both.

    In the end, a stable, prosperous, and secure Israel is in the American national interest. As the U.S. faces no imminent fiscal catastrophes that would justify denying the request, which is tiny relative to the U.S. federal budget, I support accommodation of this request.
    Last time I looked, there were some of your own countrymen who needed that money.
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    re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Unless you believe Obama is an evangelist I'm not seeing your point. As wealthy as Israel is when you're waging a 50 days war against a terror organization that launches thousands of rockets at your cities that you need Iron Dome missiles to counter, you need quite a lot of funds to manage to intercept those rockets and not go bankrupt, funds that I doubt Israel can gain on its own with its small size and population.
    The murder rate in the United States is 2 and a half times that of Israel. All told, when you figure into the cost of policing, incarceration, and defense spending, we spend more per-capita on our security than Israel does. Moreover, due to the much higher rates of murder and violent crime in the United States, its more dangerous country to live in than Israel is. I think we should support Israel diplomatically and as an ally defend it if it is attacked by other states, but that does not mean that a wealthy country like Israel should be a huge recipient of foreign aid from the United States.

    Finally, the reason why Obama and all other presidents sign off on so much foreign aid to Israel is the Israel Lobby in the United States is so well funded and powerful that they make it politically very costly for any president not to.
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    re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    I'm not in favor of giving our hard earned money to foreign powers for most reasons.

    However..in the case of Israel...

    Genesis 12:3 "And I will bless them that bless thee and curse him that curseth thee; and in thee shall all nations of the earth be blessed." Point: God has promised to bless the man or nation that blesses the Chosen People. History has proven beyond reasonable doubt that the nations that have blessed the Jewish people have had the blessing of God; the nations that have cursed the Jewish people have experienced the curse of God.
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
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    re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by MVictorP View Post
    Israel is not your ally. They aren't yanks, you see; they're mostly Ukrainians. They don't give a schnitz about you. They won't hesitate to do you harm if it furthers their aggressive goals. If you let them down, they will parasite on another body instead. Your intestinal parasite doesn't necessarly loves you with sentimentality.
    Israel is a longstanding American ally. Not even the United States’ enemies question that relationship. The relationship is mutually beneficial, so “parasitic” is a wholly inaccurate description. Furthermore, as is the case with all nations, Israel will act in its national interest. There is broad overlap between the American and Israeli national interest, even as there are some differences, as well. That some differences exist does not undermine the basis for the bilateral relationship. No pairs of nations have identical interests.

    That's codswallop. If anything, Israel poisons the relations out there. It is a destabilizing agent, because with stability, it wouldn't be able to seize territory - territory that God gave them, not to unclean goyim such as me or you (I assume).
    Israel didn’t just “seize territory.” The historic experience is far more complex. Israel accepted the UN’s partition plan. The Arab side did not. The latter attempted to conquer Israel, but lost the war. Israel has fended off aggression for the duration of its independence since 1948. At the same time, Israel has ceded territory for peace. It gave up the Sinai Peninsula in exchange for Egypt-Israel peace. It offered to give up virtually the entire Golan Heights for peace with Syria in 2000, but President Hafez Assad rejected those terms. It was willing to give up all of the Gaza Strip and 97% of the West Bank in return for peace with the Palestinians when it accepted President Clinton’s bridging proposal in 2000 and up to 98% of the West Bank (along with all of the Gaza Strip) in Prime Minister Ehud Olmert’s 2008 initiative. The Palestinian leadership rejected both proposals.

    It aslo insures that no Arabic nation will ever trust you.
    Nations maintain relationships based on interests. The U.S. has longstanding partnerships with a number of moderate Arab states on account of shared interests. Those states include Egypt and Jordan.

    Arab countries trade, too. In fact, word is that it is a people who especially likes to trade. Well, those in the Gaza strip can't trade, since they're kept in a concentration camp blockaded by Israel. If Arabs did that to Jews I'd bet you'd be crying us a river.
    The U.S. trades with many of the Arab states.

    Israeli democracy is a right-wing affair, and corruption is an essential part of the American one. No ones desires USA-style democracy. Different influences would do you good, both.
    Israel has had a range of governments including left-of-center Labor governments, centrist Kadima governments, and right-of-center Likud governments. The U.S., too, has had governments with Democratic and Republican Presidents. This diversity in governing represents the political maturity that both the U.S. and Israel share. Whether one chooses a parliamentary democracy as in Europe, U.S.-style democracy, or some other form is immaterial. Those democratic states have representative and inclusive government.

    Last time I looked, there were some of your own countrymen who needed that money.
    Assistance (financial, educational, etc.) for people in poverty, need, etc., and foreign aid are not mutually exclusive.

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    re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    I'm not in favor of giving our hard earned money to foreign powers for most reasons.

    However..in the case of Israel...

    Genesis 12:3 "And I will bless them that bless thee and curse him that curseth thee; and in thee shall all nations of the earth be blessed." Point: God has promised to bless the man or nation that blesses the Chosen People. History has proven beyond reasonable doubt that the nations that have blessed the Jewish people have had the blessing of God; the nations that have cursed the Jewish people have experienced the curse of God.
    Oh dear, do we have to bring that into it. I really oppose our foreign policy being established on a biblical verse, sorry but NO!!!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    Yes, because antisemitism does not predate the existence of Israel, never before 1948 was there any single antisemitic incident.
    Foolish antisemite people can accuse you of being Christ-killers like in the late XIXth century, but everyday, rational people can dislike you for being supporters of a rogue nation that ignores human rights.

    And I get the feeling you want me to apologize for my state's security systems that significantly reduce the effectiveness of the rockets that the terrorists are launching. That ain't going to happen. Finally, this thread is not the thread for the kind of discussion you're trying to have here.
    If the "terrorists" were naturalized as Israeli citizens when you decided to occupy their land, they would have no reason to hurl potassium-loaded flying objects at you. But you didn't because they were unclean goyim, living on the land God gave you. If you were treated likewise, you would squeal like a stuck pig and probably would build memorials to your own martyrization. Am I right? You guys are always the victims. You've got un-registered nukes, kill women and children, shoot down houses, schools, hospitals and ambulances and yet you are still the victims.

    Finally, what I wrote there is at its place in this thread.
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    re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    No rational nation allows others to attempt to injure or kill its people with impunity. Israel is no exception. Moreover, like any other sovereign state, Israel has an inherent right of self defense. Israel cannot reasonably be expected to be indifferent to acts of aggression or violence against its people and, it most definitely will not be indifferent to such assaults.
    Well, no rational nation accepts being displaced, relocalised and abused for more than 60 years neither. Even unarmed ones.
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