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Thread: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

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    Re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by MVictorP View Post
    Oh, they have hammers, too. And spades. And pointy sticks. I guess that doesn't make them an "unarmed population", huh?
    You can make weapons pretty easily, but I find the notion that Hamas, Islamic Jihad, et. al are unarmed to be fairly entertaining. Do you often make ridiculously, obviously, blatantly untrue statements when discussing the Palestinians?

    Sure, 'cause if you don't grease 'em well, they just going to keep that for themselves (like they did with 9-11), huh? After all you and all the rest are merely goyim, between man and animal. Think not about what Israel can do for you, but rather what could you do for Israel, bud.
    all nations tend to seek what their leadership perceives as the leaderships' self-interest, which generally overlaps heavily with the broader national interest.

    But if you wish to be a 9/11 Truther, there is a forum for you here. Go be an anti-Semite nutter there.

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    Re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by MVictorP View Post
    Oh, they have hammers, too. And spades. And pointy sticks. I guess that doesn't make them an "unarmed population", huh?

    How many Israelis did these potassium-loaded flying objects killed? I'll bet they cost more Palestinian lives.




    Sure, 'cause if you don't grease 'em well, they just going to keep that for themselves (like they did with 9-11), huh? After all you and all the rest are merely goyim, between man and animal. Think not about what Israel can do for you, but rather what could you do for Israel, bud.
    Careful buddy, criticism of the Jewish States FP is regularly mischaracterised as anti-semitism by the fringe right on this board.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by MVictorP View Post
    Pretty much the same result with this all this kind of fantaisist tribal tripe. Religion has done much more harm than good over the years. Too bad you're falling for it hook, line and sinker.
    It's been part of my life for 55 years. I'd be lost without it.

    Next time, don't debate subjects you have no clue about.

    If you want to learn about Christ and the Bible, the book itself and the Net are invaluable resources.
    Last edited by WCH; 05-27-15 at 04:52 PM.
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    Re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    That didn't answer my question
    It did indeed. We are not under regular rocket attack.

    And what problems did the US face in the region before its intimate involvement with Israel then
    :raises eyebrows: regular warfare? Groups dedicated to destroying the western/American influence in the region? Destabilizing and dangerous moves by regimes inherently opposed to us and allied with the Soviets?

    Remember, the US didn't begin its' "intimate involvement" with Israel until after the 1967 war - decades after "The America I Have Seen" and "Signposts" put America center in the cross-hairs of the Sunni Islamist movement.

    But you are OK with Israel having them though ? Thats never going to work out very well
    It seems to have worked out very well indeed. It has keept Arab nation-states in check (obviously it would not keep the Islamic State in check, and it is a coin flip whether it would keep the Islamic Republic in check), and done it's part to turn the region from one that see's regular large-scale wars between nation-states to one that see's wars against non-nation-state networks.

    Lets just say for arguments sake Israel had fallen during the 1973 Yom Kippur conflict. How do you think the US position in the region would be different today ?
    Hm. Its' an interesting counterfactual. Probably we would have gone to war against Egypt and Syria during the resultant mass bloodbath of Israeli citizens. One thing Kissinger and Nixon weren't afraid of was sending in the Marines to teach third world countries a lesson. Given their backing, it's not impossible it would have sparked a kinetic conflict with the Soviet Union (people underestimate how very friggin hair-trigger the 1973 fight was), although a more likely scenario is that they funnel support to Syria (but not Egypt) to increase American casualties and drain American resources. Post Vietnam, our military would have had good combat experience, but incredibly low morale - whether or not some good victories in the desert against enemies we can see would have helped or not is a coin toss. A long and painful partial occupation of the territory currently covered by Israel and Palestine would have probably followed, but we would have lacked the ability to go further. Egypt's junta would have been unlikely to survive both the war and its aftermath, and Egypt today would probably be ruled by an Islamist Theocracy, similar to Iran.

    So we would be in a much, much, much worse position, far more exposed, with significantly larger casualties and much higher, much more constant costs.

    On the contrary it was a touchstone for its dissent. By Bin Laden’s own account, this is why al Qaeda attacked America. His critique has never been cultural; he never mentions Madonna, Hollywood, homosexuality or drugs in his diatribes. US support for Israel, especially the support it gave to Israel’s invasion of southern Lebanon in 1982, first triggered Bin Laden’s anti-Americanism.
    Bin Laden's declaration of War mentions the word "Israel" twice, and both times it is to speak of the "Israel-America" faction that he accuses of supporting the governments of Egypt and Saudi Arabia (who had made effective peace with Israel). When he mentions the Palestinians he puts them as simply another in a list of victims that include Muslims in the Philippines, Burma, Somalia, Kashmir, Tajikistan, and Bosnia. Bin Laden had two major "touchstones" for his "dissent" - firstly when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan (which the Palestinians supported), and secondly when the Government of Saudi Arabia rejected his offer for aid against Saddam Hussein in favor of U.S. assistance. The presence of US forces in Saudi Arabia and the Persian Gulf is the center of his declaration of war.

    Furthermore, the Sunni extremist critique is deeply cultural, and has been since the 1920s.

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    Re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    You can make weapons pretty easily, but I find the notion that Hamas, Islamic Jihad, et. al are unarmed to be fairly entertaining. Do you often make ridiculously, obviously, blatantly untrue statements when discussing the Palestinians?
    Palestine? Give me a break. The Palestinians have been disarmed since the British mandate.

    Hizbollah, now that's a minimally armed group. And indeed they were a much less easy target for those poor Israelis, that have been busy "waging war" on people armed with sticks and stones up until that time. Israelis used to wage war against real armies like Egypt's in the past, but for a couple of decades now, they fight against beggars and vagrants - and yet when one listen to them, they are always the victims! Victims with un-registered nukes, that is. There is only ignominy in the IDF's petty "victories" of late.

    all nations tend to seek what their leadership perceives as the leaderships' self-interest, which generally overlaps heavily with the broader national interest.

    But if you wish to be a 9/11 Truther, there is a forum for you here. Go be an anti-Semite nutter there.
    What interests would Israel have in not preventing an ally from a possible attack? Heck, it is your ally and they didn't even prevented you about 9-11... Some allies you have there. Now leave your computer for a while and go earn some more money, so that your govt can give part of it to Israel. You don't want to be accused of antisemitism, do you? Come on, work that arse off for the eternal martyrs, my goy friend.
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    Re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    It's been part of my life for 55 years. I'd be lost without it.
    You are lost as we speak.

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  7. #147
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    Re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    It did indeed. We are not under regular rocket attack.
    More like firework attack from what I've seen

    :raises eyebrows: regular warfare? Groups dedicated to destroying the western/American influence in the region? Destabilizing and dangerous moves by regimes inherently opposed to us and allied with the Soviets?
    Really who ?

    Remember, the US didn't begin its' "intimate involvement" with Israel until after the 1967 war - decades after "The America I Have Seen" and "Signposts" put America center in the cross-hairs of the Sunni Islamist movement.
    What Islamist attacks on Americas regional interests had there been before 1967 then ?

    It seems to have worked out very well indeed. It has keept Arab nation-states in check (obviously it would not keep the Islamic State in check, and it is a coin flip whether it would keep the Islamic Republic in check), and done it's part to turn the region from one that see's regular large-scale wars between nation-states to one that see's wars against non-nation-state networks.
    And has destabilised the region for decades. As long as this strategic imbalance remains these states will want such weapons

    Hm. Its' an interesting counterfactual. Probably we would have gone to war against Egypt and Syria during the resultant mass bloodbath of Israeli citizens. One thing Kissinger and Nixon weren't afraid of was sending in the Marines to teach third world countries a lesson. Given their backing, it's not impossible it would have sparked a kinetic conflict with the Soviet Union (people underestimate how very friggin hair-trigger the 1973 fight was), although a more likely scenario is that they funnel support to Syria (but not Egypt) to increase American casualties and drain American resources. Post Vietnam, our military would have had good combat experience, but incredibly low morale - whether or not some good victories in the desert against enemies we can see would have helped or not is a coin toss. A long and painful partial occupation of the territory currently covered by Israel and Palestine would have probably followed, but we would have lacked the ability to go further. Egypt's junta would have been unlikely to survive both the war and its aftermath, and Egypt today would probably be ruled by an Islamist Theocracy, similar to Iran.
    All pretty unlikely given the US was licking its wounds after its Vietnam debacle. Any president suggesting another foreign entanglement immediately afterwards would not have remained in office too long

    So we would be in a much, much, much worse position, far more exposed, with significantly larger casualties and much higher, much more constant costs.
    On the contrary I think the region would be pretty much at peace now with relatively affluent societies much like the UAE or Bahrain or like the Lebanon was before the mid 70s. There may be the odd Hussein style despot but we would see nothing like the regional instability we currently do.

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    Re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    More like firework attack from what I've seen
    When have you been to Israel, exactly?
    This 'firework' falling 10 meters away from you and the nails the terrorists fill them with will make short work of your brains if the explosion wouldn't.
    Quite arrogant to be describing it as 'firework' when it's not your house that is being the target to thousands of them, but then again you do base your entire opinion on conspiracy theory hate sites as proven a few pages ago so that explains it.
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    Re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by MVictorP View Post
    What interests would Israel have in not preventing an ally from a possible attack? Heck, it is your ally and they didn't even prevented you about 9-11...
    I'm guessing you've meant to say that Israel had known of 9/11 and hadn't warned the US. And you say that based on what, exactly? A gut feeling? Some dream maybe? A voice in your head?
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

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    Re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    When have you been to Israel, exactly?
    This 'firework' falling 10 meters away from you and the nails the terrorists fill them with will make short work of your brains if the explosion wouldn't.
    Quite arrogant to be describing it as 'firework' when it's not your house that is being the target to thousands of them, but then again you do base your entire opinion on conspiracy theory hate sites as proven a few pages ago so that explains it.
    Of course they are just doing this for no reason and out of pure spite right ?

    What has any of this got to do with the US annual multibillion dollar gift from its taxpayers being increased ?
    Last edited by flogger; 05-27-15 at 06:11 PM.

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