Page 12 of 18 FirstFirst ... 21011121314 ... LastLast
Results 111 to 120 of 173

Thread: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

  1. #111
    Sage
    flogger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Wokingham, England
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:54 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,911

    Re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    If it didn't need it the US wouldn't give it. I highly doubt the American administrations through the years are just sending money to anyone who wants it.
    So whats in it for the US in giving an already relatively rich nation on the other side of the world all this money ?

  2. #112
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    55,281

    Re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    So whats in it for the US in giving an already relatively rich nation all this money ?
    Well, for one thing, it turns out that they have had ample opportunity to test missile/rocket defense tech that we would like to use ourselves. We also have (had) a solid relationship in the world of intelligence (no one does HUMINT collection in the ME better than the Israelis), though I don't know how much of if that has been reduced since the Administration decided to break our information-sharing agreement with them. Israel additionally has traditionally offered a deniable actor to take on tasks that we wanted or needed done, but weren't willing to sully our own hands with. Destruction of Syrian nuclear facilities, covert action against Iran's nuclear program, etc.

    Israel is the largest recipient of US Aid and Egypt is a close second - that arrangement started after the peace deal in which Israel gave back the Sinai, and has kept the peace between those two nations for decades. Additionally, it is right for us to support an embattled democracy surrounded by genocidally psychotic populaces.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

  3. #113
    User MVictorP's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Out of this over-moderated kindergarden.
    Last Seen
    06-03-15 @ 08:41 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    95

    Re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Well, for one thing, it turns out that they have had ample opportunity to test missile/rocket defense tech that we would like to use ourselves. We also have (had) a solid relationship in the world of intelligence (no one does HUMINT collection in the ME better than the Israelis), though I don't know how much of if that has been reduced since the Administration decided to break our information-sharing agreement with them. Israel additionally has traditionally offered a deniable actor to take on tasks that we wanted or needed done, but weren't willing to sully our own hands with. Destruction of Syrian nuclear facilities, covert action against Iran's nuclear program, etc.

    Israel is the largest recipient of US Aid and Egypt is a close second - that arrangement started after the peace deal in which Israel gave back the Sinai, and has kept the peace between those two nations for decades. Additionally, it is right for us to support an embattled democracy surrounded by genocidally psychotic populaces.
    The US gleefully enters about 10 wars a year. Do they really need Israeli military testings on an unarmed population?

    Israel costs you a lot more than it brings back, jaffa oranges and pharmaceuticals be damned.
    "That Was All I Had To Say"
    - Me

  4. #114
    Sage

    ocean515's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Southern California
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:25 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    21,526

    Re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    You could at least make an effort like I did for you.
    There is no reason, when your starting point is so full of BS. What have we invested in? If you can't even acknowledge that, there is no place to go.
    President Donald J Trump, 45th President of the United States of America. A victory born in the hearts and minds of Everyday Americans

  5. #115
    Sage
    flogger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Wokingham, England
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:54 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,911

    Re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Well, for one thing, it turns out that they have had ample opportunity to test missile/rocket defense tech that we would like to use ourselves.
    So why not test them yourselves then ?

    We also have (had) a solid relationship in the world of intelligence (no one does HUMINT collection in the ME better than the Israelis), though I don't know how much of if that has been reduced since the Administration decided to break our information-sharing agreement with them.
    One could argue would you really need such intelligence at all were it not for your relationship with the Israelis in the first place ?

    Israel additionally has traditionally offered a deniable actor to take on tasks that we wanted or needed done, but weren't willing to sully our own hands with. Destruction of Syrian nuclear facilities, covert action against Iran's nuclear program, etc.
    Once again it sounds more like the US alleging that Israeli actions had something to do with US security too when there is really little evidence for this

    Israel is the largest recipient of US Aid and Egypt is a close second - that arrangement started after the peace deal in which Israel gave back the Sinai, and has kept the peace between those two nations for decades.
    One could equally claim the US has been bribing Egypt to not attack Israel ever since thereby knocking the Arab nations strongest sword from their hands. Only Egypt ever had the sort of military power to realistically threaten Israel

    Additionally, it is right for us to support an embattled democracy surrounded by genocidally psychotic populaces.
    I don't think its right for the US to be taking any side at all here. I suspect 9/11 and all the subsequent issues the US has had in the region mostly stems from this touchstone
    Last edited by flogger; 05-27-15 at 10:59 AM.

  6. #116
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    55,281

    Re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by MVictorP View Post
    The US gleefully enters about 10 wars a year. Do they really need Israeli military testings on an unarmed population?
    Pretty hard to shoot down a rocket fired at you from an unarmed population. another one of those apparently nonexistent rockets fired today, in fact.

    Israel costs you a lot more than it brings back, jaffa oranges and pharmaceuticals be damned.
    it's not impossible, a lot of what Israel provides is intangible. How do you put a financial metric onto (for example) human intelligence that ISIL is planning an attack in (making something up) Spain?
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

  7. #117
    Sage
    Chomsky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Third Coast
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    14,198

    Re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Iran has a Middle Eastern armed-conflict surrogate/proxy called, 'Syria'.

    The U.S. has one called, 'Israel'.

    Seems kinda' even, to me...
    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

    The 10 Commandments of Logic - (Courtesy of Abbazorkzog Blog)

  8. #118
    DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
    Apocalypse's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Israel
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:19 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    16,855

    Re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    So whats in it for the US in giving an already relatively rich nation on the other side of the world all this money ?
    There's what one knows and what one doesn't know.
    What one knows includes advanced technology, full economic partnership, a solid ally in the Mideast, etc.
    Examples of technologies created by combined US and Israeli knowledge or by Israeli knowledge and US funds include; Iron Dome, Arrow system, Jericho missiles, Windbreaker, and more with many other projects currently running the most notable of them being the David's Sling anti-ballistic system.
    All these technologies would not have been developed without American funds supporting them, that's a given.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

  9. #119
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    55,281

    Re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    So why not test them yourselves then ?
    Mexicans just cross our border looking for work; they seem disinclined to rain rockets down on our school children.

    One could argue would you really need such intelligence at all were it not for your relationship with the Israelis in the first place ?
    One could argue that. One would be historically illiterate to do so, but that doesn't stop most.

    Once again it sounds more like the US alleging that Israeli actions had something to do with US security when there is really little evidence for this
    Quite the opposite, the US has a solid vested interest in halting nuclear proliferation to terror-supporting regimes.

    One could equally claim the US has been bribing Egypt to not attack Israel ever since thereby knocking the Arab nations strongest sword from their hands. Only Egypt ever had the sort of military power to realistically threaten Israel
    That depends on what you mean by "threaten". Threaten to annihilate? Maybe. WMD changes the nature of that game, and it was a big sphincter-tightening moment when Saddam started sending SCUDs into Israel.

    But yes, peace between Egypt and Israel has thus far worked pretty well as a policy - and well worth the coinage. Unless, of course, you want more massive conflict in the middle east ,and are of the opinion that the Arabs should instead unite to wipe out the state of Israel, in which case I can A) understand why you would think that the US spending some money to purchase peace is a bad thing and B) dismiss you entirely.

    I don't think its right for the US to be taking any side at all here. I suspect 9/11 and all the subsequent issues the US has had in the region stems from this touchstone
    Then you need to spend some time studying the history of this region. Al-Qa'ida didn't really give a flying rats' ass about Israel when it was founded (though it has become a handy propaganda point for them when they wanted to gain greater regional sympathy); and when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan (the sort of foundational moment for the global Mujahedeen) , the Palestinians supported the Soviets. Hamas isn't working with al-Qa'ida; they are working with Hezbollah.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

  10. #120
    Sage
    flogger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Wokingham, England
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:54 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,911

    Re: Israel asking U.S. for 50% increase in next defense assistance package [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    What one knows includes advanced technology, full economic partnership, a solid ally in the Mideast, etc.
    I would argue Israel is a complete liability to the US politically , militarily and economically. These are not the actions of friends and allies

    http://defensetech.org/2013/12/24/re...logy-to-china/

    >Sale of technologies and designs of its LAVI fighter to china for its J-10
    > Sale of radar technology to China
    > Sale of Harpy attack UAV
    > Sale of American-Israeli tech on High energy lasers to China
    > Sale of technology of US tech derrived Python-3 and Python-4 air to air missiles to China
    > Sale of C4I technologies to China
    > Help in Chinese anti-ballistic missile tech from the US patriot missiles it has

    Israel apologizes to U.S. over sale of technology to china, page 1

    Examples of technologies created by combined US and Israeli knowledge or by Israeli knowledge and US funds include; Iron Dome, Arrow system, Jericho missiles, Windbreaker, and more with many other projects currently running the most notable of them being the David's Sling anti-ballistic system.All these technologies would not have been developed without American funds supporting them, that's a given.
    Technologies I'm sure the Chinese will be happy to acquire from Israel very soon

Page 12 of 18 FirstFirst ... 21011121314 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •