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Thread: U.S. Defense Secretary Blames Iraqi Forces for ISIS Victory in Ramadi

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    Re: U.S. Defense Secretary Blames Iraqi Forces for ISIS Victory in Ramadi

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    It's a helluva lot more complicated than that... it always has been. Unfortunately, complexity is not something we pay Republicans to get.... never saw such a group of simpletons.

    Sorry, but it was the Bush Administration that tinkered with something they did not understand. It starts with the fact that Iraq is not a real country, but something that was kludged together at the end of the Ottoman Empire. Its no wonder when you broke the glue that held the mess together (the strong arm dictator names Saddam) and had no clue how you were going to pick up the pieces that you were not going to be able to put the country back together. The NeoCons naivette on this extended to a policy of de-baathification, which involved removing Sunni's from power (including disbanding the military, the power structure of which was largely Sunni). The government that the NeoCons chose to support was Shiaa, which put us on the side of Iran..... So, with the Sunni run from power and all of the command and control expertise of the military now out of work Sunni, its no wonder they set up shop across the street.

    The reason the Iraqi military is ineffective is that its command and control was gutted in de-baathifcation AND the current military is of a country that really does not exist. No one wants to die for Iraq. Its a mess and there is very little the US can do about it. Its too bad we had to spend between $2 and $6 Trillion dollars knocking of a two-bit dictator that had is finger in the dyke of middle east war and peace. But, that was the Bush Administration: brass, crass and stupid.

    We Dems apologize that we could not fix in seven years what Bush screwed up in eight.
    I totally agree.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: U.S. Defense Secretary Blames Iraqi Forces for ISIS Victory in Ramadi

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    We invaded Iraq under false pretenses, inadvertently created more terror groups like ISIS as a consequence and now our puppets refuse to fight for us. This isnt anything new when it comes to US foreign policy... this happened before with Vietnam, Iran, etc.

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    Re: U.S. Defense Secretary Blames Iraqi Forces for ISIS Victory in Ramadi

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen.Seven View Post
    Which raises the question why the US continues to make the mistake of being involved there at all. It was an mistake to get involved 12 years ago, it was a mistake to stay involved for 10 years, and now it is a mistake to get sucked back in. The Iraqis don't care enough to fight them, so why should the US? Let ISIS take over and then deal with whatever governnent they hobble together.
    Iran will not let Baghdad fall to Isis but if we let them save Iraq it will be totally under their control and the Sunnis will be screwed. We have had some success with the Sunni tribes but it is tough to get them to trust the Govt. after Maliki's reign of terror. Thanks to Maliki's purge, the Iraqi army is all Shia and they want the Sunni's to be slaughtered by ISIS so they run away. If we go in with troops we will be back to supporting the status quo and face another insurgency from the Sunni's and Iran after ISIS is defeated which won't be easy when they can run to Syria. There are no good options, that's why everyone pretty much agrees now that it was a mistake to go into Iraq in the 1st place.
    Last edited by iguanaman; 05-25-15 at 02:25 AM.

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    Re: U.S. Defense Secretary Blames Iraqi Forces for ISIS Victory in Ramadi

    Its all really great examples of BDS...but you simply cannot get away from this....



    Joe...Barrack...they declared victory...remember? They touted the strength and stability of the nation. They crowed about the decimation of Al Qaeda. They joked about how inept the "JV team" was.

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    Re: U.S. Defense Secretary Blames Iraqi Forces for ISIS Victory in Ramadi

    They can't mess with the Republican Guard. Not even Iran.

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    Re: U.S. Defense Secretary Blames Iraqi Forces for ISIS Victory in Ramadi

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    We invaded Iraq under false pretenses, inadvertently created more terror groups like ISIS as a consequence and now our puppets refuse to fight for us. This isnt anything new when it comes to US foreign policy... this happened before with Vietnam, Iran, etc.
    I do not follow your logic at all. First there were no "false pretense" in going into Iraq. Maybe it was too expensive and maybe we do not have the stomach for cleaning up after eliminating a crook, but the standpoint was clean and honest, as far as I have been able to discern after thousands of pages of reading and many, many discussions with people of other persuasion in many countries over the years.
    But you are right, that you will have inadvertent or anticipated impact of later events. We fought a Cold War for 50 years with a Man we did a lot to keep in place and win against Hitler. You will always have that happen and never quite know, what will be the consequences of action. We did not start the fire and we certainly took responsibility in trying to put it out here and there. But to fault that is absurd.

    That does not mean we should not be putting more energy into explaining to the world that we do not want to do it for us all much longer and that the world community must find a communal way to keep the peace. That is what people here and all over the place should be discussing and not whether this or that action was humane, wrong or sensible.

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    Re: U.S. Defense Secretary Blames Iraqi Forces for ISIS Victory in Ramadi

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Its all really great examples of BDS...but you simply cannot get away from this....



    Joe...Barrack...they declared victory...remember? They touted the strength and stability of the nation. They crowed about the decimation of Al Qaeda. They joked about how inept the "JV team" was.
    Yep, and they were totally wrong, point?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: U.S. Defense Secretary Blames Iraqi Forces for ISIS Victory in Ramadi

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I do not follow your logic at all. First there were no "false pretense" in going into Iraq. Maybe it was too expensive and maybe we do not have the stomach for cleaning up after eliminating a crook, but the standpoint was clean and honest, as far as I have been able to discern after thousands of pages of reading and many, many discussions with people of other persuasion in many countries over the years.
    But you are right, that you will have inadvertent or anticipated impact of later events. We fought a Cold War for 50 years with a Man we did a lot to keep in place and win against Hitler. You will always have that happen and never quite know, what will be the consequences of action. We did not start the fire and we certainly took responsibility in trying to put it out here and there. But to fault that is absurd.

    That does not mean we should not be putting more energy into explaining to the world that we do not want to do it for us all much longer and that the world community must find a communal way to keep the peace. That is what people here and all over the place should be discussing and not whether this or that action was humane, wrong or sensible.
    No, the world has pondered, and Bush's war was gratuitous, profited nothing, created a bigger night mare in way of global terrorism, and has left a huge dilemma. We do not need to expend more energy justifying this folly to the world, but we certainly need to make room for others to take the lead in the region having failed so miserably.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: U.S. Defense Secretary Blames Iraqi Forces for ISIS Victory in Ramadi

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I totally agree.
    I would be the last to say that Bush looked brilliant. But to assume that he did not understand the situation down there is somewhat presumptuous, less because he went to two Ivy League schools. It would be more because he grew up in a family, where these things were discussed over lunch and he got to meet the budding leaders and old hands from all around the world even before he started high school. And don't forget that the Republicans "could not fix in seven years what" FDR screwed up by supporting Uncle Joe. That blooper cost us 50.

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    Re: U.S. Defense Secretary Blames Iraqi Forces for ISIS Victory in Ramadi

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I would be the last to say that Bush looked brilliant. But to assume that he did not understand the situation down there is somewhat presumptuous, less because he went to two Ivy League schools. It would be more because he grew up in a family, where these things were discussed over lunch and he got to meet the budding leaders and old hands from all around the world even before he started high school. And don't forget that the Republicans "could not fix in seven years what" FDR screwed up by supporting Uncle Joe. That blooper cost us 50.
    I didn't speak to Bush's IQ in that post, and really don't know why you didn't comment on what you quoted but rather made unrelated points. I have a high regard for FDR's domestic policies, but he gets a big "F" concerning his foreign policy/the war.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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