• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS[W:452]

Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

I am heartened by your reply.

Thank you!

I get tired of the same old recitation of LW talking points or RW less than inspired justifications for the war.

You are a thinking man. And I appreciate your post.

But, in light of current events, which has prompted many intellectual excursions into the hazy and as yet unwrit future, I can imagine an unexpected benefit from the invasion which may make the whole thing look like a bargain in the long run.

ISIS.

ISIS has shown us that when push comes to shove Middle Eastern Muslims place a greater
value and importance on Islamic doctrine than on Democracy.

The two are at odds.

And in the face of the TRUEST followers and warriors of Mohammed we see that those who could and initially do sign up to fight for their own freedom and Democracy and man's law (i.e. the Iraqi military) flee Allah's Mujaheddin.

Sometime down the line that knowledge could be priceless.

When the SHTF M.E. Muslims will side with Islam before they would side with Democracy.

Saddam Hussein could have done absolutely NOTHING to prevent Bush from engaging in regime change. That train had left long before. History will be very hard on George W Bush, who left office humiliated with dismal approval ratings! For all the GOP could throw at Clinton, he still grabbed his coat and hat, stepped out of the W H on January 20, 2001 with a grin from ear to ear as he read the polls which favored him in a 66% approval rating. What's that, better than double dubyas?
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

You are unfamiliar with how great nations, cultures and civilizations implode or corrode from within, I take it.

That is the method being used by Jihadists.

The Five Stages of Islam

Forget the Five Pillars of Islam. It is the Five Stages of Islam that threaten the fundamental freedoms of Western Democracy. Freedoms which include freedom of thought, expression, and association and the crucial derived right of freedom of the press. We should never forget that "Islam" means submission -- the opposite of self-determination and Enlightenment values.

Six years ago Dr. Peter Hammond published a remarkable book which included a statistical study of the correlation between Muslim to non-Muslim population ratios and the transition from conciliatory Islam to fascist Islam. The stages are the same in 2011 but the demographics have changed to show an alarming progression. Many European nations and the U.S. are on the cusp of moving to a higher bracket. The demographics change but the story is the same. First comes the taqiyya and the kitman; then comes the Sword of Islam. Imam Rauf, the Ground Zero Mosque promoter, is the current master of taqiyya. He has gulled everyone from Bloomberg to Maureen Dowd of the NYT -- who fanaticizes over male Muslims. Expect doppelgangers of Khomeini for stage 5 and Islamic PEACE at last.

Stage 1. Establish a Beachhead

Population density à 2% (US, Australia, Canada).

Muslims are conciliatory, deferential but request harmless special treatment (foot bath facilities, removal/elimination of that which is offensive to delicate Muslim sensibilities - like walking dogs near Mosques).

Stage 2. Establish Outposts

Population density 2% - 5% (UK, Germany, Denmark).

At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. A recent example is that of Sheikh Abdullah el-Faisal who is back in Jamaica after being kicked out of the UK. Sound harmless? Read on:

The dispatch, dated February 2010, warns that that Jamaica could be fertile ground for jihadists because of its underground drug economy, marginalized youth, insufficient security and gang networks in U.S. and British prisons.


Stage 3. Establish Sectional Control of Major Cities.

Population density 5% - 10% (France, Sweden, Netherlands).

First comes the demand for halal food in supermarkets, and the blocking of streets for prayers; then comes the demand for self rule (within their ghettos) under Sharia. When Muslims approach 10% of the population the demands turn to lawlessness. In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings. Any criticism of Islam results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam. In France which may be over the 10% range, the minority Muslim populations live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which they live by Sharia Law. The national police do not even enter these ghettos. There are no national courts, nor schools, nor non-Muslim religious facilities. In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. The children attend madrassas. They learn only the Koran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable with death.

Stage 4. Establish Regional Control.

Population density 20% - 50% (Europe 2020?).

After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues.

Stage 5. Total Control, Brutal Suppression, and Dhimmitude.

Population density > 50%.

Unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and jizya, the tax placed on infidels. As Muslim population levels increase and all infidels cower in submission there will peace at last. Dar al-Islam is achieved and everyone lives under Sharia and the Koran is the only word.


Read more: Articles: The Five Stages of Islam
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook


Its not Islam that will destroy America. In fact, those who are pushing the notion that Islam will destroy America are diverting their attention from what will destroy America. Marxism, Socialism which are packaged in Feminism which I believe is being implemented from the old USSR guard.

 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Its not Islam that will destroy America. In fact, those who are pushing the notion that Islam will destroy America are diverting their attention from what will destroy America. Marxism, Socialism which are packaged in Feminism which I believe is being implemented from the old USSR guard.



This is well known amongst those who pay attention. However, Islam and Marxism have their own end goals. At times they will cooperate, at other times not.

The biggest threat in the US is currently marxism. Worldwide its less clear. In either case-the west and western ideals are under assault.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Its not Islam that will destroy America. In fact, those who are pushing the notion that Islam will destroy America are diverting their attention from what will destroy America. Marxism, Socialism which are packaged in Feminism which I believe is being implemented from the old USSR guard.



It isn't either/or.

They and other threats are currently assaulting us and we must be up to challenge them all.

Like a good computer anti virus suite.

It has to protect you from ALL threats.

Not just one, or even most of them.

ALL.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Saddam Hussein could have done absolutely NOTHING to prevent Bush from engaging in regime change. That train had left long before. History will be very hard on George W Bush, who left office humiliated with dismal approval ratings! For all the GOP could throw at Clinton, he still grabbed his coat and hat, stepped out of the W H on January 20, 2001 with a grin from ear to ear as he read the polls which favored him in a 66% approval rating. What's that, better than double dubyas?

Check this out.

CBS News 60 Minutes segment with Saddam's FBI interrogator, George Piro will fill in some blanks for you.
Interrogator Shares Saddam's Confessions

Tells 60 Minutes Former Iraqi Dictator Didn't Expect U.S. Invasion

2008 Jan 24
Correspondent CBSNews

For a man who drew America into two wars and countless military engagements, we never knew what Saddam Hussein was thinking. But you are going to hear more than has ever been revealed before.

After his capture, Saddam met every day with one man, an American he knew as "Mr. George." George is FBI agent George Piro, who was the front man for a team of FBI and CIA analysts who were trying to answer some of the great mysteries of recent history. What happened to the weapons of mass destruction? Was Saddam in league with al Qaeda? Why did he choose war with the United States?

As correspondent Scott Pelley reports, Piro is the man who came to know Saddam better than anyone, as they sat face to face in a windowless room.


"I purposely put his back against the wall. And then mine against the door, psychologically to tell him that his back was against the wall in the interview room. And that I stood between him and the door, psychologically. Between him whether it's to go back to his cell, freedom, whatever he was projecting to be outside of that door. I was kind of that psychological barrier between him and the door," Piro recalls.

Just weeks after being pulled from a hole in the ground by U.S. Special Forces after a nine-month manhunt, Saddam Hussein was placed in the hands of George Piro.

Piro says he called the former dictator "Mr. Saddam," and that Hussein began to call the agent "Mr. George." "Over time though, in private, it changed to just Saddam and George," Piro remembers.

Asked if Hussein ever knew who Piro really was, the agent says, "No."

Piro is an American success story. Born in Lebanon, his family escaped the civil war there and moved to the States when he was 12. After enlisting in the Air Force, Piro became a policeman in California. He went to night school to earn the college degree required to apply to the FBI. Piro had been an agent only five years at the time, but was chosen for this assignment for his native Arabic and because it was thought Saddam would identify with a young Arab man on his way up.

Piro's first trick was to make himself appear to be much more powerful than he was. "He didn't know I worked for the FBI, he didn't know I was a field agent," Piro explains.

"If he found out you were a field agent for the FBI, what do you think his reaction would have been?" Pelley asks.

"I think initially he would have been angry. He would feel that I was way beneath him, and would not respond well to the interrogation. Or even to me," Piro says.

"I wonder who did Saddam think you were answering to?" Pelley asks.

"I think he thought, and actually on a couple of occasions talked around the issue that I was directly answering to the president," Piro says.

Piro says Saddam thought "Mr. George" was in direct contact with President Bush, but that in reality he never was.

prev
Next
1 / 6
Copyright 2008 CBS. All rights reserved.

Interrogator Shares Saddam's Confessions - CBS News
 
Last edited:
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Yeah, Saddam spilled his heart out.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Morell said that the administration lied, whereas I already told you the bolded emphasis was mine. Pointing out further lies isn't dancing about to other areas, it's the same exact area of LIES. You remain amongst an infinitesimal minority who have been buried in the documentation of the Bush administration lies and still yet refuses to accept it. I'm sorry for the burden you bear with that.
I read the bolded part and nowhere did it mention lie or lies. If Morell was convinced that lies occurred he would have repeated the charge several times, but that has never happened. In order to understand what really happened you may want to listen to that tape again, and the constant badgering.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

This is well known amongst those who pay attention. However, Islam and Marxism have their own end goals. At times they will cooperate, at other times not.

The biggest threat in the US is currently marxism. Worldwide its less clear. In either case-the west and western ideals are under assault.
The Leftists will side with either ideology and Bezmenov nails it. It's really too bad leftists won't watch to see how they've been processed.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

The Leftists will side with either ideology and Bezmenov nails it. It's really too bad leftists won't watch to see how they've been processed.

Agreed, both marxists and islamists know their audience of sympathetic ears here.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Carter saying Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' sparks more criticism, concern about Obama plan | Fox News

Here we go again with our desperate attempts to train those who will shoot at our backs once they will be left alone.

They say you can take a horse to the water, but you cannot make him drink. Bush Jr. invaded the wrong country (as if he could invade the right one). Iraqis understand they will die from ISIS attacks, but many of them got addicted to ISIS propaganda. So both facts are against US there - the fact Iraqis are muslims makes them sympathize isis and they never stopped treating us as invaders so I'm not surprised they don't want to fight.

It seems Pentagon's idea was to create non-US troops to fight ISIS and to oppose terrorists without getting involved to a direct confrontation.

So, does it mean we spend money on training future terrorists?

This is on par with... If you like your doctor, you get to keep your doctor.

Obama fails miserably again, and well... I guess when Obama said we have the terrorists on the run, he was right... they're running over people who were liberated.

It's the product of an idiotic Liberal mindset, and an equally vile and idiotic press corpse.

But... the Left will never learn, until they find themselves facing the enemy face to face, with a machete about to lop off their heads... but then it'll be too late.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

I read the bolded part and nowhere did it mention lie or lies. If Morell was convinced that lies occurred he would have repeated the charge several times, but that has never happened. In order to understand what really happened you may want to listen to that tape again, and the constant badgering.

Oh I see, Chris beat a confession out of Morell, lol.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

This is on par with... If you like your doctor, you get to keep your doctor.

Obama fails miserably again, and well... I guess when Obama said we have the terrorists on the run, he was right... they're running over people who were liberated.

It's the product of an idiotic Liberal mindset, and an equally vile and idiotic press corpse.

But... the Left will never learn, until they find themselves facing the enemy face to face, with a machete about to lop off their heads... but then it'll be too late.
Remember when Obama called ISIS a JayVee team? Now everyone in the world knows, except American leftists, that the real JayVees is the Obama Administration.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Oh I see, Chris beat a confession out of Morell, lol.
If that's what you see then I can understand why you have so little understanding of what went on.

If Morell genuinely called the Bush Administration liars, or anyone within it, why hasn't he repeated the charge elsewhere? You are believing what you want to believe and then repeating it as though it is the truth. Not uncommon among leftists, but tiresome.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

If that's what you see then I can understand why you have so little understanding of what went on.

If Morell genuinely called the Bush Administration liars, or anyone within it, why hasn't he repeated the charge elsewhere? You are believing what you want to believe and then repeating it as though it is the truth. Not uncommon among leftists, but tiresome.

Probably because the corporate media, heavily invested in defense isn't really interested in asking the hard questions. Maybe because Morell got beat up for coming clean with Matthews.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Probably because the corporate media, heavily invested in defense isn't really interested in asking the hard questions. Maybe because Morell got beat up for coming clean with Matthews.
So Morell won't repeat the charge, despite being interviewed dozens of times since then, because of the "corporate media who is heavily invested in defense"? There is a Conspiracy Theory site where claims like yours can be discussed among like-minded people and, out of respect for the adults who enjoy debates based on facts, you should takes your ideas there.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

So Morell won't repeat the charge, despite being interviewed dozens of times since then, because of the "corporate media who is heavily invested in defense"? There is a Conspiracy Theory site where claims like yours can be discussed among like-minded people and, out of respect for the adults who enjoy debates based on facts, you should takes your ideas there.

I have no idea whether he will, or has, or where he is even hiding. At any rate, that the Bush administration misrepresented intelligence, manipulated intelligence, ignored intelligence, and outright lied about intelligence is heavily documented, and widely accepted as the cause for the failed Iraq policy, and is the reason that everybody (including the GOP congress) now acknowledges that the war in Iraq was a colossal mistake. No conspiracy here.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

I have no idea whether he will, or has, or where he is even hiding. At any rate, that the Bush administration misrepresented intelligence, manipulated intelligence, ignored intelligence, and outright lied about intelligence is heavily documented, and widely accepted as the cause for the failed Iraq policy, and is the reason that everybody (including the GOP congress) now acknowledges that the war in Iraq was a colossal mistake. No conspiracy here.
Again, you use the word "lie" without any evidence.

Had you done a simple Google search you could see where Morell has been interviewed many times and not once, despite your false claim, has he used the word "lie" or "liar".
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Again, you use the word "lie" without any evidence.

Had you done a simple Google search you could see where Morell has been interviewed many times and not once, despite your false claim, has he used the word "lie" or "liar".

Well if that's your forte, do your own damn google search and you'll find 935 documented BUSHCO lies on Iraq.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

I have no idea whether he will, or has, or where he is even hiding. At any rate, that the Bush administration misrepresented intelligence, manipulated intelligence, ignored intelligence, and outright lied about intelligence is heavily documented, and widely accepted as the cause for the failed Iraq policy, and is the reason that everybody (including the GOP congress) now acknowledges that the war in Iraq was a colossal mistake. No conspiracy here.

Kindly provide evidence, from govt sources that Bush lied.

No back and forth-just produce it.

Im calling you out.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Kindly provide evidence, from govt sources that Bush lied.

No back and forth-just produce it.

Im calling you out.

Oh my goodness, he sounds so manly!!!!! Post 346. :lol:
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS


935!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No doubt, it must be easy to show where president Bush lied!


Simply show the fruit of your truth, leftist.

With these sneers, it must be easy.
AP081106011778.jpg
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Who exactly in the Pentagon?

The officers who ordered the stories be told. If you're asking for names, I have no idea, but SOMEBODY ordered those stories be told.

In the case of Tillman, as I recall McChrystal was very much involved, but certainly it was a team effort.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Yup, it's rather obvious too, but that didn't stop us from doing it. It has to be pretty purposeful as there was never a solution to the war from the start and we've fought wars to stalemates before under similar circumstances.

I'm cynical, I know, but I prefer to say that it did not stop THEM from doing it. Our country is one thing, and its government is a different thing.
 
Back
Top Bottom