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Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS[W:452]

Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

I do not think I said, what you insinuate. Of course there were consequences of removing a harsh dictator. And we did not do a sufficient job of making peace and stability. And yes, the snippets sound like there had been grounds to want to be easy on the dictator at the time of the statements. And? So what? That has nothing to do with it.

Does that mean that the decision to enforce the Resolution was wrong?
Does it mean that Saddam was not acting against the Security Council demands?
Does it mean that Saddam was not hiding the fact from the UN that he had no more wmd?

And why did this 'harsh dictator' so suddenly need removing using massive force post 9/11 ? Why not anytime in the previous decade ?

And really now. If you want to use information as proof and want people to read it, use unbiased sources.

Please provide your evidence that these sources have misrepresented what was stated and done to engineer the Iraq war ?

And please something more valid than second hand opinion. And by that I do not mean the opinion out of context by someone like Brennan, who is there describing a very normal occurrence in large organizations. Of course there was pressure. There is always pressure for results.

Brennan clearly had some very deep reservations about what was going on at the time and said so. If he was misquoted then please illustrate that fact
 
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Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Okay - listen here:

We are all humans here. By nature, humans want to live long, prosperous lives.

Being muslim does not make any one less human.

I don't see what so hard to comprehand here. You are trying to tell me that there is a group of beings here that are not human - a group who want to des-humanize, in other terms? I won't drink your disgusting cool-aid, my friend.

Hey, I see you continue to run from reality. There is really no point in debating this with you.

Now that you are calling me disgusting for pointing out the realities of the world you seem incapable of comprehending we can part ways.



IS has suicide bombers because they can't get high-altitude bombers, drones or guided missiles. If they had, would you think that they would still rely on suicide bombers? Israel doesn't need suicide bombers - they can safely target hospitals from a safe distance.

False.

Be it in the US or in Palestine, you will always find people ready to die for their beliefs. That, is reality.

Suicide bombers want to die. I am sorry the world doesn't match your understanding of it.

All "want-to-dies" are really "ready-to-dies" passed throught a chauvinistic process.

False.

Google "Baruch Goldstein".

No need to Google him. Would you trust Baruch Goldstein with a nuclear weapon?

I have seen Yanks cheering for the destruction they caused, yes. It's quite common. Some cultures cheers at the passing of their closed ones, too.

Cool story bro.

Post-death personal gain? Ha ha ha. I love it.

They believe it regardless of your inability to accept it.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

And why did this 'harsh dictator' so suddenly need removing using massive force post 9/11 ? Why not anytime in the previous decade ?



Please provide your evidence that these sources have misrepresented what was stated and done to engineer the Iraq war ?



Brennan clearly had some very deep reservations about what was going on at the time and said so. If he was misquoted then please illustrate that fact

1. If you go back and follow the developments, you will understand quite quickly how the situation developed between Iraq 1 and 2. You will no longer be surprised.
2. Nice try. But I am not going to waste my time. Let it be enough that I will read any primary information you would like to use to show your assertions are not slander.
3. If Brennan had reservations that is understandable. Intelligence information is always difficult and usually statistical in the sense that you are dealing with probabilities. That was probably the largest mistake the administration made, when it did not base the invasion on Saddam's noncooperation using our intelligence concerning individual situations. Bush had more or less done that in his speach before the General Assembly and I was rather dissapointed to see poePowell take a different tack, which he fumbled.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

1. If you go back and follow the developments, you will understand quite quickly how the situation developed between Iraq 1 and 2. You will no longer be surprised.

I am very well aware of the developments and nothing whatsoever existed that warranted the massive response at that time. This whole conflict was engineered to suit US domestic political considerations post 9/11 nothing more

2. Nice try. But I am not going to waste my time. Let it be enough that I will read any primary information you would like to use to show your assertions are not slander.
I've made no assertions and have used statements from individuals intimately involved with this whole affair. I'm still waiting for you to show how they have been misrepresented in any way ?
3. If Brennan had reservations that is understandable. Intelligence information is always difficult and usually statistical in the sense that you are dealing with probabilities.
Except when you deliberately massage the intelligence in order to pursue a desired political agenda

That was probably the largest mistake the administration made,

Yes a very deliberate one though. Bush got his second term out of it so it worked a treat
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Hey, I see you continue to run from reality. There is really no point in debating this with you.

Now that you are calling me disgusting for pointing out the realities of the world you seem incapable of comprehending we can part ways.





False.



Suicide bombers want to die. I am sorry the world doesn't match your understanding of it.



False.



No need to Google him. Would you trust Baruch Goldstein with a nuclear weapon?



Cool story bro.



They believe it regardless of your inability to accept it.

I would like to answer your post but I see no argumentation in there, apart for "Yes it's true" or "No it's false". Is that what you look like when you've been beaten?
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

I would like to answer your post but I see no argumentation in there, apart for "Yes it's true" or "No it's false". Is that what you look like when you've been beaten?

I thought he summed it up with the first two sentences. Did you not read the first two sentences?

"Hey, I see you continue to run from reality. There is really no point in debating this with you."

Why would he provide an argument if your viewpoint defers from reality - and therefore an argument about reality would be a waste of time. Do you understand basic logic?
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

I thought he summed it up with the first two sentences. Did you not read the first two sentences?

"Hey, I see you continue to run from reality. There is really no point in debating this with you."

Why would he provide an argument if your viewpoint defers from reality - and therefore an argument about reality would be a waste of time. Do you understand basic logic?

Why would he post at all, then? If he is bent on ignoring me, why doesn't he does just that? Did he needed my permission?

If the first lines were enough, what uses the other ones have?

Or does he wanted a last sting at me but he had nothing on which to work it out?
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

I am very well aware of the developments and nothing whatsoever existed that warranted the massive response at that time. This whole conflict was engineered to suit US domestic political considerations post 9/11 nothing more


I've made no assertions and have used statements from individuals intimately involved with this whole affair. I'm still waiting for you to show how they have been misrepresented in any way ?

Except when you deliberately massage the intelligence in order to pursue a desired political agenda



Yes a very deliberate one though. Bush got his second term out of it so it worked a treat

1. If you are aware of the developments, then you do not understand that there need be no large new development other than the negotiations having run their path to justify a massive response. This might easily be, what will happen in the case of Iran.

2. ibid
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

1. If you are aware of the developments, then you do not understand that there need be no large new development other than the negotiations having run their path to justify a massive response. This might easily be, what will happen in the case of Iran.

2. ibid

Uh huh. So it was all just one big coincidence that Don Rumsfeld was talking about attacking Iraq just hours after the 9/11 attacks at 2.40PM that same day in fact ?

Complete 911 Timeline: Donald Rumsfeld's Actions on 9/11
 
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Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

I would like to answer your post but I see no argumentation in there, apart for "Yes it's true" or "No it's false". Is that what you look like when you've been beaten?

You have made several absurd arguments that it appears now you see were in fact absurd.

But back to the question: Would you trust Baruch Goldstein with a nuclear weapon?
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Basic healthcare was free for everyone, and generally dirt cheap for anything that requires more than a simple visit to the doctor. Medicine prices were heavily discounted by the government. Things like birth control pills were made available, usually for free, for Iraqi women. Kids were vaccinated door-to-door by the government. Medical care reached 97% of the urban population and 71% of the rural population. Mortality rate was 50/1000 LB, infant mortality was 40/1000 LB. Hospitals were built in every city and the Iraqi healthcare system was known to be of very high quality, Iraq was actually about to gain developed country status, versus being a developing country.[16]

What are some of Saddam Hussein's positive achievements and progressive contributions to Iraq and the Arab World? - Quora

Representing Iraq as a wonderful place to live (before United States came to power) is not that right - for every European a life in the Middle Eastern muslim country will be a torture.
But comparing with other countries in the Region Iraqis had the right to be proud of their homeland.

Dictatorship is by far the most common kind of polity - and with our inner policies crackdown we're coming closer to it (a joke actually)

They created Gitmo for Iraqis, and that is another topic to discuss.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

You have made several absurd arguments that it appears now you see were in fact absurd.

But back to the question: Would you trust Baruch Goldstein with a nuclear weapon?

The Israeli govt is pretty much Baruch Goldstein with a nuclear weapon.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

As usual, you put things in other peoples mouths. But I did not say, what you imply. But thanks to such maneuvering, it becomes quite clear how weak your arguments are.

Brennan's opinion was cited very much in context.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Healthcare for everyone*




(* - Except the millions we drove off their land in our ethnic cleansing campaigns, or fed into plastic shredders, or dissolved in acid baths, or raped to death, or shot and buried in shallow graves or gassed!)


Apparently if the US decided to run murder and cleansing campaign against the 15% of the US population without healthcare, driving the survivors into neighboring countries then Montecresto would call that universal health care! :roll:

That's not just Montecresto, and look at Iraq today, by the standards of Hussein's term. And you didn't go to the link, or you'd have seen that UNESCO awarded Iraq, and they were within reach of developed nation status, until BushCo got ahold of it. :thumbdown
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Representing Iraq as a wonderful place to live (before United States came to power) is not that right - for every European a life in the Middle Eastern muslim country will be a torture.
But comparing with other countries in the Region Iraqis had the right to be proud of their homeland.

Dictatorship is by far the most common kind of polity - and with our inner policies crackdown we're coming closer to it (a joke actually)

They created Gitmo for Iraqis, and that is another topic to discuss.

Well that was indeed the point all along. Not to compare Iraq under Hussein with Europe or the US, but to compare it with its neighbours. It's ranking terribly low next to its neighbours sense March 2003.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Uh huh. So it was all just one big coincidence that Don Rumsfeld was talking about attacking Iraq just hours after the 9/11 attacks at 2.40PM that same day in fact ?

Complete 911 Timeline: Donald Rumsfeld's Actions on 9/11

Thank you for the time line. It is interesting to read. To see the 2.40 pm note as proof of foul play seems exaggerated to me, however.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Thank you for the time line. It is interesting to read. To see the 2.40 pm note as proof of foul play seems exaggerated to me, however.

:shock:

If that doesn't represent proof then whatever else could ? Why was Iraq even mentioned at this time when as it transpired a load of Saudis were actually responsible ? Where were the calls for reprisals against Saudi Arabia rather than Iraq when that was quite quickly established afterwards ?
 
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Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Oh boy, within weeks of the 9/11 attacks, the administration pulled the three hundred and fifty pages of the Patriot Act out of its ass. Met with opposition by the two men that could have prevented it from even coming to a vote, all it took was for both of them (Tom Daschel and Patrick Leahy) to have their offices anthraxed, and bam, they were on the PA train. More coincidence.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

That's not just Montecresto, and look at Iraq today, by the standards of Hussein's term. And you didn't go to the link, or you'd have seen that UNESCO awarded Iraq, and they were within reach of developed nation status, until BushCo got ahold of it. :thumbdown

The UN is not an organization that I hold in very high regard. Crediting Hussein for any humanitarian status while he murders his own people at a prodigious rate should be a hint that you can't trust the UN.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

The UN is not an organization that I hold in very high regard. Crediting Hussein for any humanitarian status while he murders his own people at a prodigious rate should be a hint that you can't trust the UN.

The UN is not something you get to turn on when it suits you and turn off when it doesn't. **** that Bush like hypocritical position of yours. The UN is credible, or it isn't. If not, then your darling little puppet state in the ME goes bye bye.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

The Israeli govt is pretty much Baruch Goldstein with a nuclear weapon.

Oh Lord, you are hopeless.
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

The UN is not something you get to turn on when it suits you and turn off when it doesn't. **** that Bush like hypocritical position of yours. The UN is credible, or it isn't. If not, then your darling little puppet state in the ME goes bye bye.

Where have I given the UN any credibility?
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Where have I given the UN any credibility?

Was the UN credible with its creation of the Jewish state. Were all the UNSCR's, that you argued Saddam was in violation of, credible. Do you think we should pull our ambassador and membership of the UN. Do you support the UN Law of the Sea Convention that you'd like to hit China over the head with right now, hmm?
 
Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Was the UN credible with its creation of the Jewish state.

Interesting question, do you think it was? Are you going for the "if you ever thought anything they did has merit then you are a hypocrite" gambit?

I would also argue that the UN has changed considerably since 1948 and to try and force an equivalency between 1948 UN and the UN of the last several decades is foolish in the extreme.

Were all the UNSCR's, that you argued Saddam was in violation of, credible.

This is a bizarre argument on your part. The UN doesn't become credible by creating resolutions, in becomes credible by enforcing them. It has a woeful track record of enforcing resolutions.

I think the UN human rights and women's rights councils are a good idea if they weren't run by the UN who appoints criminal regimes to head up the committees.

Do you think we should pull our ambassador and membership of the UN.

Yes, along with US funding.

Do you support the UN Law of the Sea Convention that you'd like to hit China over the head with right now, hmm?

I would? News to me.
 
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Re: Iraqi forces losing 'will to fight' against ISIS

Why would he post at all, then? If he is bent on ignoring me, why doesn't he does just that? Did he needed my permission?
He's not ignoring you, he replied to your post. What on earth would lead you to believe he would need permission?

If the first lines were enough, what uses the other ones have?
Perhaps specifically to show he WASN'T ignoring you.

Or does he wanted a last sting at me but he had nothing on which to work it out?
There was nothing to work out.
 
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